cheap 996 vs not cheap carrera

[Rodsrsr]

The 996 is a great car, just take one out for an ax and you'll see. However it seems to have taken the title of the ugly duckling stepchild that was reserved for the 964. Mabey in another 20 years we will warm up to the 996 in the way we did the 964.

[Racerbvd]

What it really boils down to is very simple. Do you wan t a car that you drive or one that does the driving for you??? We went through this over The 996s are more like a Lexus, yes, they are very fast, and pretty easy to drive, to me, that takes out the challenge of driving a 911 (and one reason why I sold my C4 and replaced it with an 88) or one that drives for you. There is a member on this board who bought I think, a 99 996 with high miles but with records for $10K and has had no trouble with it, I don't even think that I (a hard core air cooled fan) could pass a deal like that. Go drive a few different cars, old & new and get the ONE, that you like the best We aren't the ones paying for the car, nore will we be the ones driving them. Both the 996 and real 911 have + & -s so it is ultimately up to you.

[Turbo Den]

Originally Posted by 89911

I'll base my answer purely on looks and ignore the performance issue. The 996 just plain bores me. Half Boxster, Half Carrera. There are plenty of cars out that are better deals for the money if all you want if performance. Really, if it didn't have "Porsche"on it, would you even consider it?

if it didn't have Porsche on it... NO, i will not even consider it. looks ugly esp 99 to 01. that's why they are so cheap... and sometimes cheaper than a proper 993.

[the]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

Mabey in another 20 years we will warm up to the 996 in the way we did the 964.

If that's the case, the 996 doesn't have much to look forward to.

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by wolf

Jasper, just for fun check the prices in Germany. Market for 996 is around 30-40K euro here. Instead of 25?K dollars it could be lucrative.

http://www.mobile.de/home/index.html

Yes..I've been there and done that. Prices in Canada are all messed up because of the economy of the Excited States of America. I imported my car earlier this year, and paid 16% exchange rate...the two currencies are now at par. I also paid a 6% import duty. So, I need close to $50K to break even on a car I bought for a very good price last May. There's no way I'll get that in Canada this year.

Oh well - it's only money. It's not like Dutch people get to uptight over money do they?

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by Turbo Den

if it didn't have Porsche on it... NO, i will not even consider it. looks ugly esp 99 to 01. that's why they are so cheap... and sometimes cheaper than a proper 993.

Hey..is that you Denny? Keep the air cooled faith brother!

Keep in mind that if it didn't have the word Porsche on it, it wouldn't be a Porsche, and wouldn't behave like one. And yes, despite what has been said here, the 996 behaves like a Porsche. If you aren't getting a thrill, you're not driving it hard enough.

....so no, I wouldn't have one if it didn't say Porsche on it either. Bad logic.

As far as looks go, would you guys think the 996 was ugly if the 911 hadn't come before it? Hypothetical I know, but it's a matter of taste and the 996 is a good looking car in it's own right. I will admit I was only lukewarm on the looks...until I drove one, and then it started to look a whole lot better.

Anyway - I think we've thrashed this to death. No hard feelings I hope.

[Dutchie]

Ik spreek Nederlandse vrei wel, maar ik kan naaturlijke niet good in Nederlandse schrijven.

are you sure your ancestors were Dutch and not South African ?

[porsche356a]

Consider the 997.

The only compliant I have is that you can't swing the tail out at anything other than ludicrous speed.

Oh, and it is hard to keep under 80mph.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by redstack

So if Mr. Walker said he won't touch a 996 that would be a factor.

i don't work on them, so i can't personally say much. just hearsay, but there's lots of it. i refer them to mark @ gerber motorsports. (britwrench on the forum). i'm sure he'll fill your ears about them. "nice cars, but.............."

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

A lot of myths being thrown around here.


Porsche reliability - that's a joke. Porsche's ALWAYS have something broken. Want reliability, get a Honda. Porsches are for driving experience, status, or penis extension.



DD, you've been around here long enough and know better than that. 3.0's need head studs @ 100K miles, 3.2's need top ends by 125K miles. That's more the rule than the exception. That's always $4K, but usually goes along with a complete refresh at $8 to $10K.

Meanwhile, I have yet to see a 996 last 65,000 miles on the same engine. Yeah, I've been around here long enough to know better than to think a 996 will make it to 100K or 125K miles.

And by the way, head stud and valve guide issues are not necessarily the rule with high-mileage 3.0s and 3.2s. I know plenty of these engines driving on the street and track, that have never been cracked open for the ailments you mention.

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by Dutchie

are you sure your ancestors were Dutch and not South African ?

That bad huh?

Meanwhile, I have yet to see a 996 last 65,000 miles on the same engine. Yeah, I've been around here long enough to know better than to think a 996 will make it to 100K or 125K miles.

Trying to leave this alone, but my guess is you're not looking all that hard. There are more and more guys posting on Rennlist with 100,000 mile 996 with original engines. The oldest ones are only 8 years old remember so yeah, there aren't that many 100,000 mile cars. Check again in a few years. My car has 53,000 miles. I daily drive it but the previous owners did not.

The early 3.4 were bad engines - most definitely. The 3.6 litre engines were more reliable. The 997 uses the same 3.6 that was in the 996, with evolutions of course.

There are a billion Boxsters on the road.... do you really think ALL of them have new engines in them?

[Staylo]

Originally Posted by dd74

Meanwhile, I have yet to see a 996 last 65,000 miles on the same engine. Yeah, I've been around here long enough to know better than to think a 996 will make it to 100K or 125K miles.

Apparently you haven't, as there are plenty out there but you are not going to hear about them in a 911 forum (or OT). I'm on my second, first a 99 (98k before I sold it to my brother, now with 120k) and now an 02 (currently at 72k and running strong)

[/QUOTE]And by the way, head stud and valve guide issues are not necessarily the rule with high-mileage 3.0s and 3.2s. I know plenty of these engines driving on the street and track, that have never been cracked open for the ailments you mention.[/QUOTE]

Just because they haven't been cracked open doesn't mean they don't exist. You have been around here long enough to know that.

[Dutchie]

Just kidding Jasper i know what you were saying your dutch is alot better than some immigrants that lived here for more than 10 years



Ok back to the waterboiler or not debate !

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by dd74

Meanwhile, I have yet to see a 996 last 65,000 miles on the same engine. Yeah, I've been around here long enough to know better than to think a 996 will make it to 100K or 125K miles.

David, you're digging yourself further and further into a hole of ignorance when it comes to the 996 man. The horror stories you hear/read are mostly played out in dramatic fashion over internet forums like here, rennlist and 6speed. There are definately 100K+ mile 996s out there. Sure, they don't hold together like a bank vault the way our older air-cooled cars do, but they do exist. I think it's a great car for the money. Wouldn't personally buy one, but it's still a solid platform. And the lack of dry-sump can be mostly cured by avoiding real sticky tires and installing the X51 oil pan/windage tray. There are little tricks like that out there that turn the seemingly mundane 996 into an absolute bargain street car...dare I say you should look into to it for a nice daily-driver

Originally Posted by dd74

Meanwhile, I have yet to see a 996 last 65,000 miles on the same engine. Yeah, I've been around here long enough to know better than to think a 996 will make it to 100K or 125K miles.

And by the way, head stud and valve guide issues are not necessarily the rule with high-mileage 3.0s and 3.2s. I know plenty of these engines driving on the street and track, that have never been cracked open for the ailments you mention.

David,
You are 100% wrong about the 996 engine and you obviosly don't know what you're talking about. Failure rate is no better or worse than any other generation of 911. There a lots of 100K plus early 996's out there. Below are links to 2. Also, you may point to individual cases of 3.2's or 3.0's that haven't been opened, but I can point to a huge number that have. Anyone who doen't see that has their head buried in the sand. I'm not sure why you continue this arguement when you haven't done research - I have.


http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=392744&highlight=100%2C000+miles

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=384800&highlight=100%2C000+miles

[Deschodt]

Yup, it's sort of been said above, but the H2O haters tend to be people who never drove one in anger.... but since I own an 83SC with 200K miles and a 3.6 996 (with 30K only but 4 more years of warranty), I figured I'd add my grain of salt.

To me, the one downside of a 996 is resale value. That's it. Done.
Looks? slap a GT3 bumper on it and it's pretty good looking (compared to a 964 ;-)

Seriously, I love the 83's raw feel, but after a few days of commuting in it, I love getting back in the 996 and knowing I can out brake, out accelerate and outcorner 99.5% of what's on the road, if need be. In comfort, with the A/C turned on. Then 2 days later I'm just as happy jumping back into my "el cheapo" $9000 83 ! (why do people buy honda civics, seriously?)

On the track, it's no contest. The SC forces me to drive my mirrors and overheats in 15 to 20 minutes depending on the weather. The 996 will pound around the track all day long and I only need to "drive my mirrors" once or twice when a GT3 or Carrera GT wants to pass.

The 88 will retain value better, then again, if you plan on keeping it for a while, the 996s are already very devalued and are a steal for the money! They make the SC/Carreras feel like tractors. I agree 100% which whoever said they were lukewarm on the 996 look until they drove one. It does that to you. 3rd gear will warp space-time ! Look, it's lifting a front wheel for you, just like the oldies !



So yeah, buy the one you like more. No need to bash one to defend the other. I like'em about equally...

[porsche356a]

Meant to post some water pumpers defense pics.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

David,
You are 100% wrong about the 996 engine and you obviosly don't know what you're talking about. Failure rate is no better or worse than any other generation of 911. There a lots of 100K plus early 996's out there. Below are links to 2. Also, you may point to individual cases of 3.2's or 3.0's that haven't been opened, but I can point to a huge number that have. Anyone who doen't see that has their head buried in the sand. I'm not sure why you continue this arguement when you haven't done research - I have.


http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=392744&highlight=100%2C000+miles

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=384800&highlight=100%2C000+miles

Well, that's eye opening. Thank you very much. Rennlist fan boys of water-cooled Porsches always sway me. When I get time, I'll hunt down some consumer reports and long-term road tests from guys paid to put cars through their paces. If I'm proven wrong, maybe I'll look into a 996 when I get an extra $15K saved up. Or maybe I'll wait until 997s go down. They should hit around the $20K to $30K region later this year, early next year.

BTW: I've seen VW Golfs that have gone a 100,000 miles, too.

Mark - I didn't know you had an interest in the 996s. Last I read, you were dickering around with early cars and/or driving a 993. So do you own a 996 now?

The 996 body may not fit some of your tastes, but the early 996 narrow body with factory aero kit drop dead gorgeous.

[the]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Yup, it's sort of been said above, but the H2O haters tend to be people who never drove one in anger.... [/IMG]

Or who are not blind and have therefore seen the droopy eyed, slab sided, plastic'td out interior, homely 996 and just don't like it.