Pros and Cons of 88 930

[perryb]

All, I am considering the purchase of an 88 930. What are the pros and cons of this model and year that I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks and Happy ALL the Holidays,

Noah930... no insult taken. I understand this is a VERY broad question and all the responses so far are exactly what I was expecting to get. Stupid me, I didn't even bother to notice the PP had a 930 listing - Doh!!! Anyway, I really do appreciate the information so far and suppose I should hop over to the 930 list and ask the same question. I was interested in period specific quirks on the 88 models that may have corrected over previous modesl, or that newer models had solved (or at least "over corrected) over the 88 model; things similar to why the early 911 models needed chain-tensioner upgrades, crappy AC on earlier models, the rubber clutch centers on the early 911s, the 915 vrs the 950 transmission, the problems with maintenance required light on the post '95 993s, etc. Of course thses are analogies to the kinds of things I was hoping to find out about the 80's vintage 930s, but most of all wheter it was best to get an 87, 88, or 89 930.

As usual, the folks on this list have been stellar!!!

Thanks again.

ADDED:

AWESOME, JUST AWESOME!!!

[Noah930]

Wow. That's a pretty broad question. Not to be a jerk, but have you done any "search" of stuff on this or the 930 forum? Or over on Rennlist? Someone seems to ask a question like this every month. It also helps to know what your intended use is (weekend car, daily driver, track weapon, etc.) and what your budget is.

[MT930]

88 930 better than a 87 930 but not as good as a 89 930. Do research talk to people who know, read the pelican 930 board. Make sure you have a P-car pro go over the car, to find issues of damage or abuse or neglect. I read the 930 pelican board for 18 months before I bought my car. The info on the forum made diffrence between good and bad buy. Qualify the car with the info you learn here, and have a pro go over it with a pre purchase inspection. Enjoy the car, and keep learning.

[Noah930]

Cons: '88 (and earlier) had a 4-speed. '89 (the last year of the 930) had a 5-speed. There's debate on how much of a negative having the 4-speed box is. Some will swear that it "ruins" the driving experience. Others just take it for what it is, and keep driving (and smiling).

Compared to later cars (like the 965 cars of '90-'94), there are fewer creature comforts (like good AC, though mine seems to blow decently cold) and "lesser" suspension compared to later, coil-over set-ups. Whether that's a negative or part of the charm will vary upon your perspective, obviuosly.

Cost of ownership is also a matter of debate. You'll hear that they're too expensive to maintain. The turbo heat will definitely make things not last as long. But I don't consider about $1600 of mechanics bills in my 14K miles (2.5 yrs) of ownership to be too bad. A lot of cars seem to have had engine rebuilds between the 40-100K mile mark. Whether that was done for performance upgrade reasons, or if the motor really needed it out of mechanical breakage is pretty cloudy, IMO. A rebuild (if done through a shop) will run you $15-25K. Certainly not for the faint of heart or wallet. But at the same time that's a bit of a misleading ballpark amount, as there's also a lot of "while we're in it" type mentality for rebuilding the trans/clutch and upgrades. For comparison, there seem to be lots of guys who claim their normally-aspirated 911s of similar vintage have gone 200K miles or more without being opened up. And those rebuilds are usually much cheaper, too.

These are 20 year-old cars you're looking at. Almost anything can go bad after that period of time. And I'm slowly coming to realize that as stock as my car first appeared to me, the saying that "All POs (previous owners) are idiots" is coming true. I found newspaper twine holding together some wiring behind the fuse panel last week when I was trying to track down a blinker short. Jeebsus.

[Noah930]

Pros: The 930 is a blast to drive. You don't often hear someone say: "I had a 930, and it was the biggest mistake I ever made..." The looks, the performance, the turbo rush, the rough but direct feel--all fantastic. Whether you like that over the "purity" of a lighter, normally-aspirated 911 is gonna be your call. Personally, I recall telling my wife after just the first week of ownership that if the car burst into a ball of flame and was totalled, it was still worth it. Helps to have insurance when saying things like that, of course. Still, it never gets old to drive, even as a daily driver (so far). Again, it's that unquantifiable quality of feel that makes it special, for me.

[slodave]

I thought the issue with the 4 speed, was that in stop and go traffic, first was too high on the RPM's and second was to low?

Dave

[Noah930]

I don't notice it much in traffic. Probably never, actually. Just don't be afraid to drive the car in first. Some people have this perception that 1st is just for getting underway, and that you're supposed to shift into 2nd as soon as possible. I'm of the opinion that if the engineers gave you "x" number of gears, you're supposed to use them all. I've found that most in-town driving is in 1st and 2nd. Sometimes 3rd. Freeway driving will be in 3rd. 4th is really for open highway speeds.

But where I do notice the downsides of only 4 forward gears on some of our fun runs, Dave, are some of the slower corners. Coming out of some of the tighter corners in 2nd (going uphill)--the motor will bog and take forever (relative term, as I see you growing smaller in front of me or looming larger in the mirror) to spool up to anything with oomph. A corner better taken in 1st, in retrospect. But heel-toeing into first (on the street) seems to be a big jump that never happens quite as smoothly as I envision. That'll happen maybe two or three times during a Sunday morning run. So I notice it, but it certainly doesn't "ruin" the experience, as some other '89 owners will claim. Otherwise, for our original poster, I'd say that the '86-'88 versions are essentially equal cars. '89 mainly has the benefit of an added gear (and slightly different clutch mechanism, IIRC).

[Rory Mckenna]

78 and up .. they are all winners.. just buy a well sorted one .. unless you like to work on them.

[oregonmon]

I don't know, I met a guy who said his 80 something turbo was a pig and it's so slow he never drives it.
Well he did have a couple Carrera RS, a couple RS Americas, and a some other toys soooo....

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by slodave

I thought the issue with the 4 speed, was that in stop and go traffic, first was too high on the RPM's and second was to low?

Dave

I've never noticed this to be a problem. In fact, I'd say the gears are right where they should be. Most of my in-town driving is done in first and second - it's actually kind of nice. I could see where on the track it might be troublesome.

- Skip

[88911coupe]

Good question...I have a friend who owned an 88 930 cab for years and loved it but went to a 993 and now has a 996 but misses the 930 still. Hands down, the turbo was FAR more expensive to maintain. Keep in mind he did NONE of his own work, in fact he'd have paid someone to put gas in in if he could have....he just loved to drive it. In the LA traffic the tranny was a PITA. I recall seeing his repair bills and deciding I'm never getting a turbo, although he'd always used Beverly Hills Porsche untill I convinced him to swith to Ottos, who he still uses...although, to be honest, nothing ever breaks on the 996. BTW, he sold the 930 to his brother who still drives it and loves it.
Good luck.

[slow&rusty]

Sorr there are no "cons" of ownership. I have had my '89 for almost three years, love it, don't mind wrenching on it, parts are NOT expensive... my uncle has had his '83 Euro Turbo for 20years same sentiment.

Yasin

[wcc]

I have a '87 930 and absolutely love this car. This car was a lifelong dream to have and now I have one. I don't see me ever getting rid of it. Actually, I've been thinking about getting a second one. That's how much I like it. It's as easy to work on as a regular 911 it's just that the parts usually cost more. I must be rare cause I like the 4-speed trans. All the gears are really long so there's no hurry to shift. Yet the gears are done very quickly but you don't feel rushed. There's time to shift.

Bottom line, if you get one you won't regret it....

[svb]

I dont have one....but I wish I did. I followed one just yesterday in Van Nuys. It was a red 930 flatnose and we were both headed to Performance Products. To see that fat rear end squat under WOT is something special....and the smell of burning oil adds to the effect

930s are extremely cool....get one!

[JMatta]

I had an '88 turbo for a number of years. I really enjoyed the car; nice tight/direct feel and handling. Looked awesome and went like mad when the boost kicked in. 1st gear is a 60 mph gear; no need to shift into second and bog the thing down. The downside to the car is starting off the line. I'm no dragster type, but the car didn't move when you pushed the accelerator to the floor. When the boost finally kicked in, it shot like a cannon. Very different driving experience from n/a motors. Be very careful when looking at cars; owners often advanced timing beyond spec to overcome some of the low rpm (off boost) lack of power. Then all hell breaks loose when you go into upper rpm ranges.

[SCHNELE]

I have one, there is nothing like it! Nuff said.

[look 171]

Perry,

the only real difference is the 4 and 5 spd tranny in the 89. Many I know are not running stock ring and pinion gears. It is the chepeat way to make it a rocket ship. Get on the gas, boost is right there where you need it. Just a split second. If I were doing it all over again, I would buy an 89 if it was a nice car. If not, an 86-88 will do just fine. Resale value will be better. But, who the heck cares, you bought to drive not as an investment.

Most of these cars will make around 400hp with bolt-ons mods. 5th gear will just be a cruising gear on the freeway. you are in LA, you will like that boost to come on as soon as you get on the gas to get around traffic.

Have you found a car yet? What year?

[wolf]

Classic. Won't get any cheaper.