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Rear AC Concept
Picked up a roll cage and was looking at those rear glove boxes that delete rear seats - My thoughts lead me to wanting to drop an evaporator unit into one seat bucket and duct the AC to the front through the center tunnel. Push AC air through through shifter coupling cover . AC Lines would be short a big + The 924 / early 944 condenser assembly is very flat and looks suitable to mod for that app flipped over so drain line needs mods nothing some fiberglass can't fix. . Sorry kids no more back seat rides Ha mine are 6 Ft now so never fit anyway ... |
I sure hope Javadog is reading this because I ran into an issue today with this project and could use his wisdom here (or anyone who has access to a 1977+ non-A/C cowl fan).
As Javadog pointed out earlier in this thread, the center dash vent for non-A/C cars is different in that it contains a butterfly valve to close off the vent (this is the only way to completely close off fresh air from this vent). The A/C version of the dash vent is identical otherwise. One of the reasons this project has been on hold is that I have not been able locate the non-A/C dash vent anywhere. I suspect they are rare in the US as most 911s were likely ordered with A/C. I figured on my next trip to Germany I would look for a used one, but then a kind fellow Pelican came to the rescue last week and supplied the elusive part. So, while installing the ventilation components today I got to the step where I needed to remove the butterfly valve from the right fan outlet. This looked easy enough as it appeared all I needed to do was remove the bolt clamping the butterfly to the shaft (see Photo 1). Photo 1: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381029541.jpg After removing the butterfly I soon discovered that in addition to its function as a valve, the butterfly also serves to retain the pivot shaft in the fan housing. Without the butterfly in place, the shaft can simply slide out of the housing, as shown in Photo 2. Photo 2: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381029630.jpg So my question is, what holds the pivot shaft in place on non-A/C cars? Is there some sort of push-on fastener on the end of the pivot shaft? Something like: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381029843.jpg I need to remove the shaft anyway to drill the two holes for the short linkage to the new center air distributor, so I can make modifications to the shaft to hold it in place if necessary. Oh, and one other thing - I realized after going back and re-reading some of this thread that I tend to use the term "control box" when referring to the L & R air distribution boxes, because that is the term used in PET. Where Javadog uses the more descriptive/accurate term "distribution box" to refer to the same part. I will try to remember to use "distribution box" as well going forward as it is more descriptive, plus I want to avoid any confusion with the "control levers" when describing that swap. |
Hey Frank. glad your making progress on your ride. If you are removing the butterfly valve why do you need the pivot shaft at all? It's not going to actuate anything.
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Unfortunately it would not have been easy to simply eliminate the right shaft (2) entirely like you said, and have the linkage run all the way from the left pivot shaft (1) to the new center butterfly (3) because the cable from the control levers attaches to pivot (2), so doing it this way was easier. Besides, I think the bump in the housing for the fan motor would be in the way. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381033546.jpg |
I decided to cut a groove in the shaft and go with an E-Clip & washer (5mm) - this worked great and is the same setup used to retain the linkage bars between the butterfly valves. Next I'll take the pivot shaft to work tomorrow and drill the two holes for the new linkage rod on the mill machine. I used the photo posted by Vinny as a template to know where to drill.
E-Clip installed: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381123446.jpg |
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JR |
subscribed.
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My update for this week:
I mic'd the existing linkage for the butterfly valves and found that it is 3mm. I then called around to see if anyone local had 3mm round stock, but no luck. So going online, I discovered 3mm brass rod is a common part used in the RC hobby world, so I ordered the following (yes, only $3.49): TowerHobbies.com | K&S Round Brass Rod 3mm Diameter (3) And being that it is brass, I don't have to worry about taking it to the plater with my next batch to have it yellow zinc plated. The next step was to drill the two holes in the pivot arm for the new linkage. I knew I needed something slightly larger than 3mm, but I did not have access to metric milling bits for the milling machine. However, a 1/8" bit is 3.175mm, which turns out to be perfect for this application. I was happy with the result (photo 1): Photo 1: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381813181.jpg Fortunately, the brass rod arrived on Friday, so the next was to bend and cut the new linkage piece. Thanks again to Javadog and SWS911 for pictures of the linkage so I could duplicate the OEM piece as closely as possible (photo 2). Photo 2: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381813487.jpg I thought I was done and could actually finish a sub-project here, but I should have known better. I suspect the new distribution box for the center vent (which had to be shipped from Germany) is NOS since I can't imagine there being a high demand for these things (at least in the US). The good thing about NOS is that it is new. The bad thing about NOS is that it is old - not used, but old. I don't know how long this one has been sitting on a shelf, but one thing I have noticed in all three other German vehicles that I own (M3, GTI, Mini Cooper S) is that the foam material they use for things like the headliner and door fabric deteriorates in about 10 years. And so is the case with the "new" distribution box. As I peered into the opening of the box while adjusting the new linkage, I discovered this mess (photo 3): Photo 3: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381814121.jpg The foam they used to seal off the air to the right distribution box was crumbling without me even touching it. I disassembled the new box, removed all the old foam and glue, and glued on some foam-backed headliner material I had left over from when I had to replace the headliner on the M3 for the same reason. Hint, if you look at the sealing surfaces, you will discover that you only need to cover two of the four sections. If you would like more details let me know. One final piece keeping me from now installing the fan and completing this project are the two plastic fasteners used to attach the new distribution box to the fan housing. Those parts are in a fastener shipment that should arrive tomorrow (no mail on Columbus day). I will post pics when everything is assembled. |
Btw, I haven't forgotten about the instructions for removing the control levers, I just wanted to post my progress on the linkage since that was the least "plug-and-play" part of this process.
I will be busy this week with my steering rack and alternator once the fastener shipment arrives, so I may not be able to resume the control lever steps until later in the week. |
Next installment: Removing the Heating & Ventilation (HV) Control Levers
I have now finally finished this project and ran into some additional challenges along the way, but before I get too far ahead of where I left off with the instructions (and start to forget things), let me resume where I left off with removing the HV Control Lever assembly. 1. Disconnect battery. I will go back and add this as the first step in the previous post. My battery has been out for so many years I forgot to even mention it :). 2. Remove the ashtray to give yourself more room to access the HV Control Lever assembly from under the dash. Removing the radio would provide some additional access, but I found I was able to remove the lever assembly without any difficulty with the radio installed. As you might have guessed by now, you will be lying on your back working under the dash quite a bit for this part of the procedure. I currently have the seats, shifter & handbrake removed, so I had plenty of room and was quite comfortable. A headlamp (light mounted to forehead) is also good to have. 3. Remove the 6mm bolt securing HV Control Lever assembly to a bracket on the bulkhead. Photo 1 shows the tab at the rear of the lever assembly that attaches to the bulkhead. I am showing this photo so you have an idea of what the bottom of the assembly looks like, and how it attaches to the bulkhead, since your view of the assembly will be blocked by the ashtray carrier. Photo 2 provides a view of what you will see of this area from under the dash (actually your view will be flipped 180 from this). As you can see, the ashtray carrier blocks most of the view/access to the lever assembly from the bottom, but there is just enough room to reach the 6mm bolt (green circle) with a box or open-end wrench. Photo 1: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383371221.jpg Photo 2: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383371377.jpg 4. Once the 6mm bolt is removed, you can start sliding the lever assembly out, but you won’t be able pull it out more than a few inches due to the Bowden cables and ground wire. Take a look at Photo 1 again and notice the short brown ground wire from the lever assembly. That ground wire attaches to the grounding block shown in Photo 2. Disconnect the lever assembly ground wire from the block, but be careful because as you can see there many other ground wires all converging on this grounding block, so be sure to re-attach any others you may pull off by mistake. 5. Now the fun begins – removing the three Bowden cables. As I’m sure you know by now, the three cables terminate in the following locations:
6. The three cables run from the lever assembly, under the steering column area, and pass through the bulkhead entering the trunk behind the left HV distribution box (next to steering linkage cover). If you follow the cables from the lever assembly it’s easy to see where they pass through a grommet in the bulkhead. Photo 3 shows the view from the trunk of where the three Bowden cables enter into the trunk area. Photo 3: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1383371407.jpg Stopping here for tonight (this stuff takes longer than it looks to write up). Next steps are to remove all the ventilation components under the cowl to complete the lever assembly swap, and also to re-plumb for non-A/C operation. |
Nice write up!
and just in time for me to start reworking my controls Thanks Sub'd |
Third installment:
Sorry if this installment seems short, but I decided to break up these instructions into smaller chunks so that I wouldn't have to dedicate a large block of time before posting an update. Note: I should state that I’m not going to be able to provide much detail on removing the evaporator and A/C blower in the smuggler’s box, nor the A/C compressor, condenser(s) and hoses. I removed all those parts from my car back in 1987 so I don’t have much more to submit than some photos I took at the time, but I recall it was straight forward and there are plenty of discussions here on Pelican on that topic if you need help. Since we need to remove the A/C related ducts anyway, that will be the next step as it will allow easier access to the distribution boxes. I also removed the fresh air fan and cowl box assembly since I wanted to lubricate the fan. This gave me plenty of room to work on the distribution boxes. I don’t know if this task can be completed without removing the fan assembly since I never tried, but removing the assembly is quick so I highly recommend it (plus it gives you an opportunity to lubricate the noisy fan bearing). First the A/C related ducts: 1. Loosen the three hose clamps (red arrows) and detach the hoses going to the white splitter in the center - near the smugglers box (Photo 1). Disconnect the electrical connector from the splitter (green arrow). Pull the splitter up to remove it (Photo 2). Photo 1: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385272615.jpg Photo 2: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385272692.jpg 2. If you have the A/C evaporator/fan assembly removed from the smugglers box, the only A/C components that should be remaining there are the red elbow that runs up to the white splitter we just removed, and the wiring harness/relay. With the splitter now out of the way, you can see that there are three small bolts that hold the elbow in place (Photo 3). Simply remove these three bolts and the elbow can be removed from the smuggler box area (Photo 4). Note that this leaves a large hole into the smugglers box from the trunk (Photo 5) – I will get to that later. Photo 3: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385272762.jpg Photo 4: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385272826.jpg Photo 5: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385272883.jpg 3. You could remove the three hoses that connected to the splitter at this point, but it will be easier to access the clamps on the other ends when more items are out of the way. Next step – removal of Fresh Air Fan Assembly |
Frank, I just sent you a private message.
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Removing the Fresh Air Fan assembly
I had a little time while waiting for the Turkey to come out of the oven, so I thought I'd post an update. Happy Thanksgiving!
Removing the Fresh Air Fan assembly As I mentioned in my previous post, I removed the air box assembly to oil the fan motor and also provide easier access to the distribution boxes and center dash vent. You may be able to keep the fan motor and air box together and remove them as a unit, but I found it easier to have them separate when it came time to re-assemble everything. Fan Motor Removal (Photo 1): 1. Remove the cowl brace 2. Remove the hose clamps on the left & right outlet hoses at the fan 3. Remove the Bowden cable clamp and fixing bolt (you may want to mark the cable at the fixing bolt for re-assembly) 4. Unplug the power connector to the motor 5. Removed the two bolts attaching the fan motor to the fan box (one bolt hidden in photo) and remove the fan motor Photo 1: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385679376.jpg Fan Box Removal: 1. Remove the four screws (three shown) fastening the cowl screen to the cowl intake (Photo 2) and remove the screen 2. Remove the two screws that fasten the air box to the cowl (Photo 3 #2) 3. Remove the spring clamp for the drain hose at the bottom of the box, and pull the hose down into smugglers box (Photo 3 #3) 4. Remove air box by first sliding it to the rear until it clears the cowl frame, then down and out. Photo 2: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385679442.jpg Photo 3: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385679476.jpg |
Sub'd
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Installment 5
Final steps to removal of A/C Control Lever Assembly
Sorry for long delay in posting an update here. I’ve been busy trying to finish putting the 911 back together and posting updates over on my suspension thread. Plus, I purchased a ’73 911T project back in March, so I’ve been doing a lot of research and parts hunting on that as well. In this post I’ll describe finishing the removal of the old control levers assembly. Several posts ago I unbolted the old control lever assembly from the dash, but I was unable to finish removing it because the Bowden cables were still attached to the various components in the trunk. In my previous post I disconnected the Bowden cable for the top lever at the fresh air fan when removing the fan motor. This is the cable that controls the amount of fresh air that enters the air distribution boxes from the cowl/fan. The steps below describe how to remove the final two Bowden cables for the lower two levers. The Bowden cable fixing bolt for the fresh air deflector cable (middle lever) is on the front side of the left distribution box and is easily accessible (photo 1). However the fixing bolt for the heat deflector cable (bottom (red) lever) is on the back side of the left distribution box, and to access this you need to unbolt the box so it can be flipped over. We need to unbolt both L & R boxes anyway to replace the top caps, which I will get to later 1. If you haven’t already done this, loosen the hose clamps for the fresh air inlet hoses (from fan) at the L & R distribution boxes and remove the hoses (photo 1: #1 (left shown)) 2. Loosen the hose clamps for the heat inlet hoses at the L & R distribution boxes. You don’t need to remove the hoses (and probably couldn’t if you tried) (photo 1: #2 (left shown)) 3. My car did not have hose clamps on the short hoses from the top of the distribution boxes to the defroster vents. If your car has clamps on these hoses, loosen them as well. 4. From under the dash in the cabin, remove the two allen (socket) head screws that fasten the flange of the distribution boxes to the bulkhead (photo 2). A word of caution here. I discovered that condensation dripped out of the defrost vent hose on the right distribution box, and over the years slightly corroded the outboard screw for the flange. I could not see this from inside the car, and when I went to loosen the fastener, this twisted the flange and cracked it with very little torque. As is usual with these types of projects, this set off a series of events that forced me to jump over to another project (steering rack) for a while. The good news is that the flange is still available for purchase. The bad news is that they changed the part to use self-tapping screws, as I discovered when the new part arrived (photo 3). I preferred to keep the old style part with the machine screw fastener, so I posted a WTB in the classified and a kind soul was able to supply me with the old style flange (we ended up simply exchanging my new for his old). So you may want to put a little of your favorite penetrating oil on these flange fasteners (easily accessible from the top) before attempting to remove them.5. Follow the two long smaller diameter hoses that run from the (now removed) A/C splitter for the L & R dash side vents to where they pass through the bulkhead (photo 4 (left)). Loosen the hose clamps at the bulkhead and then remove these two hoses to get them out of the way (we will be replacing them with much shorter lengths later). 6. Release the fixing bolt at the front of the left distribution box for the fresh air Bowden cable (from the middle control lever) (photo 1: #3) 7. As you probably noticed by now, the two Bowden cables from the lever assembly that control the up/down output of the fresh and hot air attach only to the left distribution box. Two additional cables running between the L & R distribution boxes are used to relay the movement of the hot & fresh air levers on the left distribution box over to the right distribution box. Due to how the relay cable for the fresh air lever (front of box) passes between the power brake booster and the brake fluid hose (from the reservoir to the master cylinder - photo 5), you won’t be able to maneuver the left distribution box very much unless you detach this relay cable at the left distribution box. This also allows you to verify if the fresh air deflectors at the L & R boxes are synchronized properly (mine were not), and adjust them accordingly. Access to the fixing bolt for the relay cable is a little tight, but doable. 8. With only the two rear Bowden cables still attached to the left distribution box, you should now be able to flip the left distribution box onto its side and easily detach the hot air Bowden cable leading to the control lever assembly (bottom lever). Sorry, I didn’t’ get a photo of this, but it is very similar to the front fixing bolt and should be obvious. The rear relay cable can be left attached. 9. With the remaining two Bowden cables from the control lever assembly now free, you can now go back in the cabin and pull the three cables through the grommet in the bulkhead and (finally) remove the A/C style ventilation control lever assembly. Remember where the grommet that the three cables pass through is located under the dash, as you will be pushing the cables from the non-A/C style control levers back through that same opening. With the old control levers finally out, I’ll move on to converting the distribution boxes to provide fresh air to the side dash vents in my next post. Photo 1: Left Distribution Box http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403413098.jpg Photo 2: Distribution Box Flange Fasteners http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403412724.jpg Photo 3: Left: new style flange, Right: old style flange (crack at right fastener boss) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403412818.jpg Photo 4: Dash Side Vent Hose at Bulkhead (left) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403412904.jpg Photo 5: Front Relay Cable Passing Between Brake Components http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403412998.jpg |
Hey frank in your photo at the top of the page how did yiu seperate the lever with the rod attached from the internal flapper door with the foam on it. Im doing the same thing at the moment and it comes apart easy when you remove clips but i cant seem to budge that lever from the flapper door. I dont want to break anything by forcing it is it just pressed on or glued on?
Photo 3 in post 68 for your reference |
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yeh mine was still pressed really hard onto the shaft needed a screw driver to remove it in the end even with the round clip taken off
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Refreshing original paint... Buffing, cutting etc
I am the proud owner of a nice G50 coupe in GT White that wears its original paint. There are no major flaws but it certainly does not shine. I have never in all my car fixing/restoring years done much waxing or compounding or any other such process on a car besides cleaning it regularly. Can someone give me a quick run down on what steps I might take to enliven my paint job?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408233340.jpg |
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