1984 Euro Carrera

[mgore3]

I have a 84 Euro (ZZZ) Carrera that I bought 6 months ago. The car only has 55k miles and is in great shape. I understand that when the Euro cars were imported that they were "detuned" in order to meet emissions standards. Supposedly, the Euro 911 had around 240hp vs 205hp after modifications. Appreciate any info on how to bring it back to the 240hp.

I live in North Carolina, which doesnt require an emissions test. Appreciate any info regarding other states that I might encounter emissions testing problems.

Appreciate any info or experiences....thanks.

[tonythetarga]

The RoW Carrera had 231 hp due to a higher compression motor. It also did not have a catalytic converter or O2 sensor. Whoever imported the car may have had to install a cat and replace the ECU (I think) for input from the O2 sensor. Easy enough to check if you have one, just look on the driver side of the car at the exhaust and look. The cars were not detuned for reduced HP, just changed to meet smog emission requirements. BTW, the US Carrera 84 to 86 had 207 HP.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Protocol is to do a brief intro and post a picture of the car.

[dtw]

Correct, the gap was 24 hp. Your car will have all 231 - the federalization process didn't include changing pistons! My '85 Euro Carrera regularly spanked US market Carreras.

[cdrik915]

Europeans models are 231 ch when not catalized , like mine ; when there is a catalitic , it exists two versions :

- 207 hp when the catalitic is a factory part , installed when the car is built.
- 207/210 hp when the catalitic is installed AFTER by Porsche or an independant .

The American 911 3.2 , if i remember my reading , are 207 hp.

It must be noticed that it's impossible to modify completly a catalized version to a full power version , because the gear-box is different , more short .( in Europe)
On track , the final difference is smaller than i thought , a few advantage for me , but not impressive.(when i was "stock".)

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by mgore3

I have a 84 Euro (ZZZ) Carrera that I bought 6 months ago. The car only has 55k miles and is in great shape. I understand that when the Euro cars were imported that they were "detuned" in order to meet emissions standards. Supposedly, the Euro 911 had around 240hp vs 205hp after modifications. Appreciate any info on how to bring it back to the 240hp.

I live in North Carolina, which doesnt require an emissions test. Appreciate any info regarding other states that I might encounter emissions testing problems.

Appreciate any info or experiences....thanks.

In '84 the 930.20 RoW engine was rated at 231hp and had 10.3 cr. US engine was 930.21 207hp 9.5 cr. heads, valve cams etc were all the same.

First check the engine serial # to be sure that the engine is a 930.20

The US power loss is from lower cr, DME tuning and a cat vs RoW premuffler.

If the car was Federalized on importation the only thing that they would change are the chip, add a cat instead of a premuffler and add an O sensor.

So look at the exhaust. through the drivers side rear wheel well. If there is an O sensor the car has been modified.

But the other thing is that back then you could import a car once in your lifetime and be granted an EPA exemption. No EPA mods would have been needed.

Regardless of exemption or not. The car should have a DoT release stating that the car has been modified to conform to DoT specs. Changes here would be to bumper supports, glass, road lights, and dash warning lights
and an EPA release stating whether the car was modified to comply or given an exemption.

[pozee]

I'm assuming that "ZZZ" is part of the VIN indicating a Euro car? If yes, where is yours mgore3? Is it on the A pillar tag or in the trunk or both?

Thanks!

[911 in SC]

I have recently been investigating what has and has not been changed for federalization. Spot on, it has (had) a cat, 1 wire O2 sensor, and US Spec DME. I'm curious what kind of power I'm making with the US spec DME and 1 wire O2 sensor. Either way, in talking with Steve Wong (911 Chips), he can provide me with a RoW chip, and this will convert it back to RoW specs. Hopefully it will be here Friday or Saturday...

I'll keep my US spec chip, along with the sensor and catalytic converter in case we ever have emissions checks here in SC.

[WPOZZZ]

You should also have a tranny cooler on your RoW car.

[3.2 CAB]

+1 with WPOZZZ, the transmission will probably be like mine, it is a 915/67. There are also a couple of slight differences in the gear ratios from the US models, plus it should have a factory transmission oil cooler.

[svb]

My ROW had a Euro DME for which I swapped out to Steve's ROW chip...there is still a significant difference in feel and I highly recommend the chip. I am having the "after the fact" cat replaced with a Dansk europremuffler and the stock muffler changed to an M&K muffler 1in 1 out this week. My car never had a functional 02 sensor. I'll let you guys know the end result

If you have a US Spec DME you should clarify with Steve which chip will work in your car. I believe you need a Euro DME for his ROW chip. He had me check all the numbers on my box to confirm that I did have in fact a Euro DME.

[Paul K]

Welcome! Please add your location to your profile.

Cheers,

Paul.

[jrl]

I bought an '84 Euro in '06 that was federalized after original purchase, door sticker in place. Previous owner modified it with cat bypass, early Fabspeed exhaust, and custom DME, a la Steve Wong. I got the orig cat and muffler with the purchase, sitting in the garage.

The DME tuner was apparently pretty conservative with his numbers and did a dyno run at installation. He estimated crank horsepower in the high 240's, maybe 15hp over Euro spec. Seemed to make sense.

I'm in central VA. No emissions testing here. Car is loud and stinky, just what the doctor ordered.

[stevemfr]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

If the car was Federalized on importation the only thing that they would change are the chip, add a cat instead of a premuffler and add an O sensor.

But the other thing is that back then you could import a car once in your lifetime and be granted an EPA exemption. No EPA mods would have been needed.

Hey guys,
new here - and I used to convert grey market cars in the 80's (I wasn't one of the butchers...).

Actually, I'm not aware of any modifiers who were able to change a chip back then. The guys doing a good job replaced the entire DME ECU while others added an additional ECU that was usually cut into the temp. sensor wire thus fooling the original ECU to go rich or lean (because it thought the motor was warmer/colder).

What will have reduced the hp most is the cat. Here too, the guys doing a good job would have used the OEM 3.2 cat, while others used universal 3-way cats welded in place of the pre-muffler. With a poor conversion you could have ended up with a car that had less hp than a US version wheras with the all-OEM-parts conversion you'd probably have ended up with marginally more hp. I also remember a couple of guys trying metal cats which were first coming out back then (generally all cats back then had ceramic 'bricks' which were much more restrictive) hoping to try to keep as many of the 231 horses as possible. If any of these conversions survived, they should be quite a bit quicker than a US model all other things equal. I had a 231hp 84 Carrera back then and it was noticeably quicker than the US version.

I can't imagine that many 3.2's came over under the once-in-a-lifetime exemption; the cars also had to be at least 5 years old which would have meant that the 3.2's would have been coming over as of '89 - but by that time the $ had lost so much value that it was not worth the hassle.

Hope I'm not being too pedantic - just enjoying talking about this stuff again

[911 in SC]

Originally Posted by svb

My ROW had a Euro DME for which I swapped out to Steve's ROW chip...there is still a significant difference in feel and I highly recommend the chip. I am having the "after the fact" cat replaced with a Dansk europremuffler and the stock muffler changed to an M&K muffler 1in 1 out this week. My car never had a functional 02 sensor. I'll let you guys know the end result

If you have a US Spec DME you should clarify with Steve which chip will work in your car. I believe you need a Euro DME for his ROW chip. He had me check all the numbers on my box to confirm that I did have in fact a Euro DME.

*excerpt from e-mail from Steve*

Hi Mike,

If you'd like to revert the car to the original ROW setup and operation, you
do not need a ROW dme. I can supply you with the ROW/Euro performance chip
that doesn't recognize the O2 sensor, and is the same chip sent to all the
overseas customers with their ROW 3.2s.

*end of excerpt from e-mail from Steve*

So, no, you do not need a RoW DME for his RoW chip. However, thanks for asking for clarification. I would have imagined the same thing too. That's why I had asked.

Thanks,
Mike

[mgore3]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I tried to update my profile to add more detail. Every picture I have of the car is over two meg, so I cant add it.

I am going to try to supply feedback to several questons. I did double check and all serial ZZZ numbers match. There is a tag on the drivers door jam with serial number and shows "Importer" as "Lee M. Davis". The car does have a CAT it looks like it has been on the car forever.

From the various replies, I can conclude changing out the DME and going to a new set of headers with exhaust (without CAT) might be the way to go. At least I wont emissions problems in North or South Carolina. Appreciate any feedback.

Anyone familiar with Lee M. Davis as an importer? Appreciate any details.

Thanks to everyone.

[Hugh R]

I have an 84 ROW with an 02 sensor and cat (I live in LA so I have to pass smog). Steve Wong customized me a chip for my specific car and it runs great. I don't see how an O2 sensor is a bad thing, it give feedback to the engine on combustion. The back pressure of the cat, may reduce performance. But I don't want to swap chips and pull cats every two years for a smog test, I mostly drive the LA freeways, so the extra hp isn't (GASP!) that critical or important to me. I think Steve told me I might be shorting the car a few hp, but I don't think it was more than a few like under 5.