Differences between SWB & LWB. How to make a turbolook SWB
 

What are the differences of SWB and LWB. What do you need to make a widebody SWB ? Are the rear turbo banana arms bolt on ?

Step 1: Put the SWB aside
Step 2: Buy a LWB. The most economical solution would be a '74-'77 since their bigger bumpers will align better with the wide body body-work.

While it is technically feasible to do the conversion that you describe, all that you'll wind up doing is spending a heap of money reducing the value of the SWB car that you've got. If you don't desire the qualities of a SWB's, financially you'll be much further ahead selling your SWB to someone who appreciates them and then using the money you got from the sale to buy a mid-year ('74-'77). You'll still have to do some cutting and welding to change the rear trailing arm mounts, but you'll be far ahead of where you'd be if you started with a SWB chassis.

Agree with John. Not only does flaring the fenders devalue the car, every SWB car I've ever seen has rust, which makes it a poor starting point for the high loads imposed by flared fenders (and the big brakes and engine to go with them). Turbo arms are VERY expensive and they can crack.

+2

Jluetjen and John Cramer speak the truth.

Torsion tubes are different, rear arms are different. Therefore different wheelbase lengths

A lot of money, time and effort.

No Turbo arms are not a bolt-on, you have to replace the torsion tube, not a insignificant, or cheap task

If you already have a SWB and want a wide body, then as suggested sell it and find a better starting candidate.


I would suggest an SC as a basis for a turbo body car.

Guys i know all this stuff. The car is bought, and it is already a turbo look swb. Lets put the cost issue aside. Can you please help me with this matter ?
There are some other reasons why we chose thios car. It already has a 3.0 engine, and is 965 look.
The car will be made into a 74 rsr replica. The problem is that it has those huge spacers that we need to get rid of. Thats why i ask about arms

could you post a couple of pics? I'm curious.

My $500 '66 came with FG Turbo look rear, with longhood front (and turbo wing)..
It does look a bit wierd with the huge flares, altho I haven't seen a lwb flared up close. I'm almost wondering if the 2.25" wheel move is that noticeable with the flares....

Anyway, whenever I get around to playing with it I'm gonna try to get the early rear, ducktail, possibly a 915, or 930 tranny, and a 2.0TT motor. Depending on how it handles I might get crazy like MT912RS for the rear suspension and convert to lwb. I haven't started looking too much yet, but yes, you probably have some rust. I know mine does, which is why I'll prolly be adding a full cage minus X-braces, while fixing the rusted panels.

As for moving the wheels farther out..... mine has some pretty horrid looking cragars that look like they belong on a 60's muscle car (polished billet aluminum I think they are). They are pretty light 15x7 and 15x9 running 225 and 295. I think the lip on the rear wheel is like 6+" :P

No prob, but why are you curious ?

What is wrong with a SWB turbo look ???

Here goes

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201092141.jpg

How wide are the spacers? they must be huge with 1990+ offset wheels :P

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-911S-Real-but-project-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ120214027348QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10 156QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here is a 67S w/ turbo flares.......I am sorry this is sacrilege!

a '67S ???! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...ys/bawling.gif

The turbo arms really need to be bolted to a torsion tube that has the mounts in the correct position for the arms, as they have different geometry than the standard arms. They are also designed to put the wheels in the correct place for the longer wheel base. So, you would need to modify your torsion tube mounts to replicate the anti-squat and camber change characteristics inherent in the turbo/RSR geometry, and to locate the pivot points further forward to bring the wheel center where it needs to be, if you want to use the same wheel location. Good luck with this, it won't be easy.

Or, you can just change the rear fenders to match the current wheel locations. You have to change the fenders anyway, if you want it to look like a '74 RSR. Most people wouln't spot the wrong wheelbase.

Or, you can leave it alone and use different wheels, with an offset that solves your problem with the spacers. After all, the turbos still used spacers on the rear and the 74 RSR had much wider wheels anyway.

JR

Is that pic the actual car we're talking about here?? If so, it looks to be an unusually complete conversion. I mean, no front wing windows or rear quarter vent windows. Looks LWB already. Interior looks to be updated. Euro side marker lights and all!!

If that is a conversion(and the actual car your talking about) it's the most complete one I've ever seen and I wouldn't mess with it.

Step away from the SWB and put down that cut off tool. NOW!

But then again, if it's your car do whatever you want, but it is true sacrilege!

Guys yes. This is the actual swb car. It is a 66, with a 3,0 sc engine, and steel turbo flares. I dont get it though. Were are the diferences among swb and lwb ? Are all the exterior panels the same ?
Whats the fuss about chopping an already converted car ?
I guess, the only trouble would be the installation of the rear turbo arms.

And also, this is a euro car.

They moved the rear wheels back by a couple of inches. In short, they chages the spring plates, swing arms, axles and the rear fenders. There's other stuff, but that will get you started.

I suppose the fuss has nothing to do with you, as I suspect somebody else converted the car. It's just that a 66 is rare nowdays, so most people would have left it stock and modified something more common. The other thing is that these conversions are seldom done well, or on a sound car, so when you take them apart you find all sorts of problems. Porsches are often shiny on the outside and quite ugly under the skin. They rust.

The installation of the turbo arms requires a huge amount of work to be done correctly and few people are willing to tackle the work. Changing out a torsion tube isn't for the inexperienced. I'd suggest studying the problem a little longer to be sure you want to head down this path.

JR

Personally I always find it a bit jarring to see a late 1980's car with 1960's gauges and interior trim in it. It's kind of like walking backstage on a movie set. It looks like the real thing on the outside, but the inside is completely different, or just not there.

I had a 66 wide body many years ago. No one can tell the difference from the outside. But, to answer your question about installing the turbo trailing arms, you would have to move your rear fender flares back to center over the wheel, which will now be 2 inches further back and that in itself is not worth it considering your car is basically complete.

A SWB car is the closet rendition of a 911 to the original design of the 901. It is also the link between the 356 and the 911.

SWB cars are becoming harder to find and are considered special because of it's lineage.

Anyone can tell me how this car became widebody then ? Where the rear wings changed to a lwb ones? But on the other side, how could these be installed if the rear is shorter ? I just dont get it

with steel and fiberglass and bondo, you can make anything fit anything else.


art911, are you SURE this is a swb? vin tags don't always tell the truth. maybe measure the wheelbase? wheel center to wheel center on one side with fronts straight ahead. should be 87 inches. it's just hard to imagine such a complete conversion on a swb.

The way you make a SWB turbo look is you flare the rear wheels..... and if you don't have a swb rear bumper (think GT Racing does sell them) you add on to the rear bumper to fill the gap to flares. On the turbo look SWB the rear bumper should be 2+" longer to the flare, then a lwb, altho with the flares it would be harder to notice.

If that is a conversion, it does look very complete. The PO of mine did a conversion, but I can easily tell that the wheels are too far forward (and way too tall) Usually the torsion tube hole will be near the edge of the flare, unless whoever did it used a lwb flare (like my PO)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201169378.jpg

What is the VIN? Should start with a "3" and be six digits.

it is a 66 car

Art you have a nice looking car, I am at a loss, what are asking? The car is already converted are you trying to increase the wheel base?

Just for he record I have seen more than one 911R SWB car with ST style flares on them in fact one is sitting in a museum in Sweden now. Considering the real cost vs Value restoring a SWB I am glad to see one more on the road as opposed to rusting in a shed waiting to be restored ..... "when I get the money one day"

Thanx MarkoBrow

the car has 930/965 flares not ST, and unknown Aarms and bananas on the back with some huge spacers. I would like to convert it to turbo type rear arms and get rid of the huge wheel spacers. I am going to make it a 74RS replica for track use so I am asking for the best suspension setup for it.
I only need to know what it takes to convert it.
MONEY IS NO OBJECT!!!! I only want to make this specific car a nice track weapon.
I apologize to the purists, but I got the car like this. I didn't convert it myself

Another consideration is that there are some people involved in racing these things that prefer the geometry of the standard 911 rear arms over those of the turbo. You might want to talk to the people that prepare these cars for racing and get their feedback, before you spend the money to put a new torsion tube in the car.

JR

I agree with Java, the standard aluminum arms may be an easier set-up, If you need to use turbo arms Check in Bruce Anderson's book ( PORSCHE 911 Performance )on page 200 and 201. There is some explanation of what it would take and the geometry to make it work. Having said this the SWB cars are better for track use than the long wheel-based cars and I had a turbo and the spacers come with the package. You might want to check you wheel offsets and maybe you can use smaller spacers or get some custom made and eliminate the spacer all together.

any more on this subject ?

PROGRESS...

I have stripped the car, which as mentioned is a 1966 converted to 965 look using steel wheels.
I have found a set of rear 930 arms as well as the 930 torque tube.
The car had a 3,0SC torque tube installed. I will take this out and install the 930 torque tube.
The question is shall I put it exactly at the same points that the SC tube was welded ?
If I do that and install the short 930 arms as well as all the front and rear 930 suspension components will the car become a lwb 930 ?

Anyone has any response on this ????