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-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   A Photo Diary of a top-end rebuild. Or, The Tale of a one-armed rebuild. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/388758-photo-diary-top-end-rebuild-tale-one-armed-rebuild.html)

Dixie 01-27-2008 11:59 AM

Quote:

Put seperate items like fasteners and catagory parts in a ziplock bag and label the bag with a sharpy. Clean them first......
Yup, I'm doin' the ziplock bag trick. But right now, I'm storing them dirty. I'm also a big proponent of putting the nuts and bolts back where they go after removing something. …Loosely of course.

wilke3169 01-27-2008 05:02 PM

When I pulled my engine I removed the bumper which buys quite a bit of clearance. Took just a few minutes +/- but it was worth the effort. I also only raised one side of the car after dropping the engine to crazy height to pull the engine out.

Dixie 01-27-2008 05:27 PM

Hi Kevin,

How did you remove the bumper? I thought about it, but it looked like a lot of work

mark '87 930 01-27-2008 05:43 PM

sub'd

ipapilot 01-27-2008 05:53 PM

Rob, not sure if those alternator boots are replaceable by Porsche, but I got new ones from a repair facility at the local airport. They are silicone, unlike the factory rubber, and should not tear like the factory ones. Don't forget to get new ones for the starter, too, if you need them.

Mitch Leland 01-27-2008 06:32 PM

Rob,

Here's a follow up on Brian's suggestion for neoprene electrical boots. It doesn't appear that Pelican carries them.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/terminals.html

911 tweaks 01-28-2008 05:33 AM

Great post Mitch!!. What size do we need for our 911's? Can you post the complete p/n here for all to see?
Thanks, Bob

DaddyGlenn 01-28-2008 06:11 AM

Yeah Mitch. Thanks, thanks a lot. :rolleyes:

You had to post that when I have the engine out. You just added to my while I'm in there list. :D

Gunter 01-28-2008 07:13 AM

Here is what I did for lifting:

Make sure you put large wedges under the front wheels before you lift.
Get a jack that has a lift height of at least 22", don't worry about the low range because you can pre-lift the car with jacking plates in the square holes under the doors.
Instead of jacking plates, I use regular 7/8" key stock 5" long, one on each side with Bottle Jacks.
Pre-lift the car a little at a time, place the wide-base stands under the T-bar covers.
Heights required: 32.5" from floor to underside of bumper will clear the engine to be rolled out on the floor jack. To obtain 32.5", I found that the T-bar covers will be 23.5" off the ground resting on my 5-ton jacks: VERY SOLID plus the Bottle Jacks!.
Center the large floor jack on the engine seam; the "Sweet spot" for balance is in front of the sump plate, NOT ON IT! :(
I made a plate from ¾” ply-wood with cut-outs to support/balance the engine/transmission on the jack; you can make one or buy the steel plate for this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201536170.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201536784.jpg

Nickatnyt 01-28-2008 07:36 AM

An oil change pit in your garage? Now that's a rarity.

Keep us updated...always great to see these 'rebuild' threads!

Mitch Leland 01-28-2008 09:38 AM

Electrical Boots...
 
Bob,

Here's a break down of the different sizes I'll let you decide which is best for you. I might add the "E" dimension is the most important. If the "F" dimension is too big, I just put a tie wrap around it.

See ya,

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201545490.jpg

911 tweaks 01-28-2008 10:11 AM

ok Mitch... I am being lazy... well sorta... I hurt myself yesterday at the F1 go-carts here in Boston... It will wurt if I attampt to go out to the shop and dig around for the Brown gnd wire to spec out what I need for these boots... from the dis assembly done last fall, I know I want to lenghten the wire as it was a bi^ch to take off the alt etc and the boot(s) were toast... thus, I need to find out the wire outer dia to fit through the "G" dimension & the wire lug dia to possibly also go through the "G" end but also work on the "D & E" dimensions.
If you know this I would greatly appreciate it as I want to order a bunch of these today from aircraft spruce... you know how it is, gotta get "something" done every day on the p-cars to keep up with things...
Thanks, signed wounded Bob

Mitch Leland 01-28-2008 10:23 AM

Wounded Bob,

I'm glad you're still alive, those rocket sleds go pretty fast with your butt 2" off the ground. I hope you'll be OK... How fast is fast?

You don't need a boot on the brown ground wire, it won't buy ya anything... You do need them for the positive cable at both the alternator and the starter. You'll need one size for the alternator and a larger size for the starter lead. I would just get some of the larger sizes, you'll be fine.

Porsche_monkey 01-28-2008 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickatnyt (Post 3732786)
An oil change pit in your garage? Now that's a rarity.

Because they are typically illegal. For groundwater contamination and carbon monoxide reasons. Anyone I know that has one built it on the sly without a permit.

Not to imply that the one shown contravenes any applicable codes...

911 tweaks 01-28-2008 12:38 PM

mitch, the carts get uo to 45 mph max... I was told that the best technique to keep the speed up is to master the art of sliding through and around corners... well my slide turned into a right front corner of the cart hitting the wall at about 30!!! I will never forget that... then seeing all of the others closing in on me I thought I was history!!
I just bought 4 of ea size boot... spares I guess for when ever
Thanks Mitch and sorry everyone for the interuption to this post.
W.B.

mthomas58 02-01-2008 08:34 AM

It's just not right for this post to have fallen to pg 7! Anxiously awaiting an update and new pics. What's on the agenda for this weekend? Was thinking about this thread as I was adding yet another quart of oil this AM at the gas station.

BTW, I may have missed it but how may miles on the clock? (Duh! 98,000....got it!)

Gertvr 02-01-2008 11:01 AM

Good luck! subscribed

Kroggers 02-01-2008 12:32 PM

Subscribed :)

Dixie 02-01-2008 02:31 PM

Quote:

It's just not right for this post to have fallen to pg 7!
Unfortunately, I'm instructing at CMP this weekend. (Like that's a bad thing. ;)) However, doing so negates any engine work this weekend. But it's not that big a deal. I'm still waiting on my cam holder to show up. The one wilke3169 kindly lent me fits an SC, not a Carrera.

I will provide this bit of info instead. Here's what I've spent to date, not including shipping:
  • $6.00 CV Joint Bolt(4)
  • $81.75 Reverse Light Switch
  • $72.00 Cam Bar tool
  • $25.20 Exchanger Nut Tool
  • $54.25 Thermo valve
  • $163.19 Fuel line
  • $16.00 Ball Socket Retaining Clip(4)
  • $1.20 Cable Holder
  • $194.00 Position Sensor (2, BMW)
  • $73.75 Temprature Sensor
  • $687.34 TOTAL


Notice I haven’t even gotten to the heads yet.
…I knew I'd have to keep "scope creep" under control.
…I knew the head work would be expensive.
…I knew I'd probably need a clutch.
What I didn't account for are the 20 year-old parts that would evaporate when touched.

billybek 02-01-2008 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Nickatnyt View Post
An oil change pit in your garage? Now that's a rarity.
They banned them here years ago after some wac job started shooting at the cops from his pit...

flmont 02-01-2008 03:20 PM

I used heavy duty eye bolts, thru the engine mount bolt holes, fabbed a chain to them got the engine hoist connected to the chain and jacked it straight up and pulled that engine right out from under the car,..10 min. and it was free ....FM

rob911 02-01-2008 03:28 PM

Well done - great feeling removing the engine and gearbox at home, by yourself. Thanks to all who posted tips and articles here a few years back. Will get Wayne's book for my rebuild.
While you are in there......number 4 and 5
Replace "flapper boxes", the heater control valves
Skim flywheel, check balance, fit Sachs clutch kit yourself
Fit new gearbox mounts if your stick was shaking.

BMWDavid 02-01-2008 03:41 PM

Subscribed

efhughes3 02-01-2008 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera (Post 3731166)
I got everything off the top of the motor today. The plan was to remove everything as one assembly, as mentioned in Wayne’s rebuild book. I gave up on this plan pretty quickly. Mostly, I didn’t thing the fiberglass shroud would hold the weight of the fan and alternator without cracking. Plus, the alternator ground tethers everything. In the end I removed the fan & alternator, the shroud, and the EFI as three separate assemblies.

That's pretty much the way you have to do it. When some, in this case: Wayne, mentions removing the top stuff in one piece, that pretty much refers to the injection setup. The fan, alt and shroud have to come off as you did it.

LET the impact wrench on the CV bolts be a lesson to all reading this....my buddy did the same thing recently...cost a few hours extra.

At any rate, good luck on this. You'll find a lot of satisfaction in this project.

mkimber 02-01-2008 06:35 PM

Subscribed...best of luck.

autobonrun 02-01-2008 06:59 PM

Excellent post. I'm following this one myself. I really need to drop mine to reach the many oil leaks and most likely replace the clutch. 100k+ miles on this one.

I have a question on the CV/axle bolt removal. Do you just remove the bolts at the tranny and let the axle hang down or do you remove both ends? I only ask because it appears (to the inexperienced) that the axles would interfere with the drop unless they are completely out of the way.

DaddyGlenn 02-01-2008 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autobonrun (Post 3743063)
Excellent post. I'm following this one myself. I really need to drop mine to reach the many oil leaks and most likely replace the clutch. 100k+ miles on this one.

I have a question on the CV/axle bolt removal. Do you just remove the bolts at the tranny and let the axle hang down or do you remove both ends? I only ask because it appears (to the inexperienced) that the axles would interfere with the drop unless they are completely out of the way.

Just unbolt the CVs from the tranny. You don't want to let them hang but wire them up so the ball bearings don't fall out.

Dixie 02-04-2008 02:44 PM

Karma is finally paying me back. Yesterday I got the exhaust off. No torch, no snapped studs, no stripped bolts. Yeah, ½ the studs came out of the heads, but so what? I’d be fool not to replace every single exhaust stud anyway. Guess I'm due after 30 years of broken exhaust bolts and studs.

I did notice each bank has one black, oily, nasty, exhaust valve. One sports some early stalactite formations in the port. All the other exhaust valves sport the usual white-ish residue.

Here's a shot of the RH exhaust ports. Note the valve on the right is black and sticky looking. The other two are white.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202168578.jpg

ianc 02-04-2008 06:29 PM

Quote:

I’d be fool not to replace every single exhaust stud anyway.
I would go the other way. If the studs are in there with decent threads on them, leave them alone or you'll let yourself in for further difficulties. Just clean them up well with a tap\wire brush and coat them liberally with antisieze prior to assembly. Replace the ones that came out of course...

ianc

SP2 02-04-2008 08:57 PM

I agree with ianc. If you try to remove the existing studs you might snap it in half and then you will have to drill out the remaining half with Christian's tool. I didn't get as lucky as you and only succcessfully removed 11/12 nuts from the studs. The one that snapped was my first one and it set me back a few months!

Dixie 02-05-2008 03:14 AM

Actually, since the heads will go to a machine shop, I thought I'd be bright and let them replace the studs. :)

wilke3169 02-05-2008 04:35 AM

Robert, Sounds like you are well on your way. I am signed up for March at CMP and have requested your assistance. Certainly looking forward to that. let me know if you need a hand before then.

Dixie 02-05-2008 03:10 PM

Thanks Kevin,
  • First, I've been corresponding with the registrar. She should be pairing us up.
  • Second, You'll like the changes at CMP. The new track layout is nice. But even better is the new NASAR-ish garage and paving in the paddock.
  • Third, I only need help at my real work. It keeps gettin' in the way of my working on the engine. ;)

Dixie 02-08-2008 01:52 PM

They're off!
 
Between family and work, time for this project has been scarce. To rectify the situation, I took off from work today. The goal was to finish getting the heads off.

By 8:30am I had the valve covers off the engine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202510852.jpg


By 4:00pm the engine looks like this. The heads are off and ready to go to the machine shop.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202510937.jpg


As you can tell, there’s quite a bit of carbon in the cylnders. Number 1 looks extra nasty…


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202511124.jpg

Dixie 02-08-2008 02:00 PM

As the tear-down progressed, it became apparent which guides are leaking the worst. Each bank has one cylinder that stand s out for copious quantities of oil. For example, head #5 Nice and dry,

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202511466.jpg


And here’s head #4. slick with oil.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202511604.jpg

Dixie 02-08-2008 02:04 PM

Questions
 
Now for a couple questions:
How does the chain look? Pretty good, or stretched to the limit?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202511721.jpg


How about the wear in these cam journals? Look acceptable? I can’t catch anything with my fingernails. (My theory is this. If the journals look good, then the bearings are good too.)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202511852.jpg

TibetanT 02-08-2008 07:13 PM

Rob:

Good information here!

One dumb question, since I am late to the party, how did you get the engine from the floor to the engine stand? What was the strategy there?

If one is working by himself, can you simply safely jack the engine up and put some blocks underneath then jack some more and blocks again?

Looks like that clutch did need to be replaced and JIT too!

Good luck with this one!

CheersSmileWavy

efhughes3 02-08-2008 07:35 PM

Now there is an argument for regular use of Techron, and spirited driving to go with it. An engine should not have to collect carbon built up like that.

wowzer911 02-08-2008 09:14 PM

Rebuilding the top end in my spare motor soon, subscribed.

Mitch Leland 02-09-2008 06:16 AM

TibetanT,

I'll jump in here and tell you that the safest way is to use an engine hoist to get your engine from the floor to the engine stand. If you had some way of attaching a "come along" to the ceiling of your shop or garage that would also work. However "come alongs" can be tricky and they can get away from you when coming down...

I just saw an ad in the new Harbor Freight catalog for a scissor bench that lays flat and will elevate to work bench height. I think it was $299.


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