Successor to the 911

[RWebb]

In the mid to late 1980s, it was becoming obvious to Porsche that the 911 - even with the SC's improvements and the DME and projected improvements to the Carrera - was becoming outdated.

The dash ergonomics was deteriorating as more and more controls were added, the torsion bars and suspension design were primitive by contemporary standards, and everything on the car was becoming dated, even the unit body.

Both performance and emissions were becoming harder to meet with the air-cooled design. $ valve heads were impossible (except with water cooling the heads) and a combination of both water and oil cooling made little sense.

Porsche AG engineers considered many possible changes, and several bold new re-thinkings of the car. As we know, what emerged was crippled by lack of funds. They wanted to go on to the 993, but instead the 964 resulted as sort of a stop-gap.

What is not generally appreciated is that even bolder ideas were considered and some made it as far as test mule stage. Below is a photo of one:




The engine is maintained at the rear, and the wt. bias was "improved" to 35/65. Note that the coil springs of the 964 appear here also as do the improved front and rear suspension geometries.

But the most striking innovation was "stolen" from Lotus. The unit body (which bore a striking resemblance to Porsche's earlier "long-life" design exercise of the late 1970s)) was discarded for the central member with an "X" (or really a "V") at each end for the suspension. Note the attention to safety, with the gas tank safely surrounded by the structural members to prevent puncture in an accident. Water cooling was envisioned with the Al tubes running inside the frame to the front mounted cooler. The brake lines too, would be protected from road hazard by running atop the frame.

BTW, this car still retained torsion bars, but not as primary suspension components. Can anyone tell me where the torsion bars were located? As an aside, the torsion bars were cryogenically treated for improved performance.

or maybe not...


look familiar to anyone?

[Won]

That indeed looks a lot like the Lotus Elan chassis:


(source: lotuselan.net)

[RWebb]

I guarantee it is not a Lotus product - tho the idea was no doubt "stolen" from Lotus.

Here is a pic of the replacement F suspension, in all its modern, unequal-length A-arm glory:

[Todd Simpson]

[RWebb]

heh heh hold off a while Todd...

The engineers maintained the front trunk - still capable of holding a golf bag (but apparently only a single one now)

[RWebb]

The rear seats are not present on this prototype, but the area for additional luggage storage remains, and is nicely finished...

Included is a mesh cover to prevent shifting of luggage while cornering hard in this sports/GT car

[Trotskyite]

Torsion bars were used in the doors Actually it is a modified Lotus Y frame. Lotus handled quite a bit of the suspension development as well. I bought one when I was 19 for a song and had a blast with it.

[RWebb]

The brakes look very similar to the Carrera brakes...

[Trotskyite]

mmmm gold for better heat dispersal. Mclaren F1?

[911Freak]

gold=massive unsprung weight, not to mention it's "soft" but the coating looks cool : )

[Trotskyite]

They are just painted gold, I was being sarcastic.

[RWebb]

plated Zn would be my guess

So.... how many people wish that P AG had gone this way instead of going with the unit body 964?

[Won]

So that is actually a Delorean?

[khamul02]

4 lugs in back to the future as well

[EarlyPorsche]

A 911 is not the ideal design for an all out racer. The objective is to have 4 seats and a decent trunk and be fast.

I am glad that Porsche did not change their way.

The 997 is an amazing vehicle, the 993 is an amazing vehicle, and I for one do not care for there to be revolution in a vehicle that has become as the number 1 sports car because of its evolution.

Remember Porsche works on evolution and not revolution and that has been working for them. I suggest they stay on course.

The only change they need to make, is the same change that occurred from 1963-1965. The flat 4 became a flat 6.

Its time for the flat 6 to become a flat 8. I would predict that the next generation 998 will be just that.

A 4.0 litre flat 8 in the base Carerra with Porsche tuning would have at least 475hp. In "S" form it would be 4.2 litres and well over 550hp and then the GT's and Turbo's would be unreal. I can dream can't I? Or is it a dream?

[Mr.Puff]

It does look like a Delorean frame. Especially the placement of the fuel tank . It was a big deal on some show I watched about them.

[RWebb]

OK, guess I won't snag anybody.... maybe one.

Todd got it right away...




and yup - the torsion bars are above the doors and are the springs that work them




I bet he doesn't tell her how slow it is:




Odd how close the overall design & fitments are to a 911 tho, isn't it?

[Trotskyite]

There was a shop doing 300HP Buick Northstar conversions on these things a few years ago. Thats motor I can get behind. In all honesty though, in 1982 you could have had a 180HP two-tone vette, an equally anemic and generic looking 924 (sorry 924 guys), a 911SC in a time when the 911 wasn't quite a classic yet, or a Delorean. Given the malaise era options, the Delorean was pretty cool. Given 20 odd years of development they could have been fast too.

[khamul02]

If you really like them, You can buy these things brand new these days.

[sobamaflyer]

There's a gentleman in the neighborhood where I'm building our new house with one, I've seen him lovingly wiping it down with armour-all. Looking forward to getting to know him (and his cool toy)