Legality of H4s

tshore · 03-14-2008, 07:27 PM

I am planning to upgrade my headlights from the stock sugarscoops to the larger Euro-style assembly with h4 bulbs. I know that Hella h4 bulb upgrades are also available that will fit the sugarscoops, but I like the look of the euro-type assemblies.

My question is what is the legal status of the h4 euro upgrade? Does it depend on the lens? I live in CA, and I have never had to have my headlights checked in order to register, etc, so even if they are not technically legal, what problem could there be in making the switch?

the · 03-14-2008, 07:29 PM

You'll never have any problem with H4 Euro headlights on your 911 in Cal.

snbush67 · snbush67's Garage

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

the · 03-14-2008, 07:36 PM

In the old days (i.e., the 70s and 80s), when crappy, dim little sealed beams were the law, you *might* have gotten noticed with Euro headlights, since they were so much whiter and brighter than everything else.

But these days, Euro H4s are nothing, compared to the super-bright modern headlights on most cars.

rbuswell · rbuswell's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by tshore

I am planning to upgrade my headlights from the stock sugarscoops to the larger Euro-style assembly with h4 bulbs. I know that Hella h4 bulb upgrades are also available that will fit the sugarscoops, but I like the look of the euro-type assemblies.

My question is what is the legal status of the h4 euro upgrade? Does it depend on the lens? I live in CA, and I have never had to have my headlights checked in order to register, etc, so even if they are not technically legal, what problem could there be in making the switch?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the

In the old days (i.e., the 70s and 80s), when crappy, dim little sealed beams were the law, you *might* have gotten noticed with Euro headlights, since they were so much whiter and brighter than everything else.

But these days, Euro H4s are nothing, compared to the super-bright modern headlights on most cars.

I've been wondering the same thing and the concensus appears to be that whether they are "illegal" or not has no real bearing. The lights are not as bright as even the mid-level modern headlights so no cop or trooper is even going to notice. So the age old question persists, "Is it a law if no one is enforcing it?"

Danny_Ocean · 05:51 AM

CVC - "Lights & Lighting" - http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc_index_l.htm#lightsandlighting

And, specifically Sec. 24011 would apply to whether the headlights are federally certified:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24011.htm

And if the lamp is not certified, Sec. 24003 would apply:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24003.htm

mca · 03-15-2008, 11:15 AM

Any time I see something about "legality" in a thread title ... I always check to see if it was posted by a California Pelican.

... and it always is.

You poor fellas. So many hurdles!

Danny_Ocean · 03-15-2008, 12:43 PM

LOL. I knew the poster was from CA before I even opened the thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mca

Any time I see something about "legality" in a thread title ... I always check to see if it was posted by a California Pelican.

... and it always is.

You poor fellas. So many hurdles!

afterburn 549 · 03-15-2008, 01:33 PM

me too!! Left side Hammer and sickle state

tcar · 03-15-2008, 01:42 PM

[QUOTE=rbuswell;3829271]The lights are not as bright as even the mid-level modern headlights so no cop or trooper is even going to notice. QUOTE]

Not true.

Brightness has NOTHING to do with whether they are H4's or not. Depends on the bulb you put in them.

You can put a 55w in that's like a 20 year old headlight, or you can put a 100w (not legal) bulb in, but you can do that with other housings besides H4's.

H4's do not meet FEDERAL DOT rules.

As many Pcars as you see with H4's, both in sugar scoops and in euro housings, I don't think I'd worry about it.

Quicksilver · 03-15-2008, 06:20 PM

You will never need to worry about it unless you are in your 20s. Cops LOVE guys in their 20s.
Once you are 40+ you can drive around at 60mph through school zones while brandishing fire arms with out raising a cops eyebrows! Woo hoo, gray hair!!!

The H4s will never be noticed. Even if they were it would be a $10 fixit ticket and you can just swap in the crappy H5s for the inspection.

island911 · 03-15-2008, 06:32 PM

The reason that H4s were not legal had to do with a very old law about sealed beam bulbs, and that the H4's lack the three little alignment bumps (on the lens).

Now, for new cars, the bumps have gone away and so has the requirement for "sealed beams."

Although, in CA, they may fine you for lead content in the glass.

the · 03-15-2008, 07:16 PM

[QUOTE=tcar;3830061]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbuswell

The lights are not as bright as even the mid-level modern headlights so no cop or trooper is even going to notice. QUOTE]

Not true.

Brightness has NOTHING to do with whether they are H4's or not. Depends on the bulb you put in them.

You can put a 55w in that's like a 20 year old headlight, or you can put a 100w (not legal) bulb in, but you can do that with other housings besides H4's.

Umm, yeah, you take out the standard 55/60W bulbs the come standard with the H4s, and replace them with 100W bulbs, they are going to be (drumroll please) . . . brighter.

aigel · aigel's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mca

Any time I see something about "legality" in a thread title ... I always check to see if it was posted by a California Pelican.

... and it always is.

You poor fellas. So many hurdles!

It's still the Porsche capitol of the world with some of the best tracks and the most scenic roads in the world. Don't feel too sorry for us.

George

Danny_Ocean · 07:50 PM

Can you slap a turbo on any non-turbo (smog) car? Can you change the injection system? Can you install headers/muffs on any (smog) car? Can you tint your windows? Can you run without a front plate? Can you carry a gun in public? Can you not pay a percentage of your income to the State?

I can drive to CA for the weekend, tear up your roads & tracks with my smog-belching unlimited modified car(s) and be home Sunday evening by 7...

Quote:

It's still the Porsche capitol of the world with some of the best tracks and the most scenic roads in the world. Don't feel too sorry for us.

George

rbuswell · rbuswell's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbuswell

I've been wondering the same thing and the concensus appears to be that whether they are "illegal" or not has no real bearing. The lights are not as bright as even the mid-level modern headlights so no cop or trooper is even going to notice. So the age old question persists, "Is it a law if no one is enforcing it?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcar

Not true.

Brightness has NOTHING to do with whether they are H4's or not. Depends on the bulb you put in them.

You can put a 55w in that's like a 20 year old headlight, or you can put a 100w (not legal) bulb in, but you can do that with other housings besides H4's.

H4's do not meet FEDERAL DOT rules.

As many Pcars as you see with H4's, both in sugar scoops and in euro housings, I don't think I'd worry about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the

Umm, yeah, you take out the standard 55/60W bulbs that come standard with the H4s, and replace them with 100W bulbs, they are going to be (drumroll please) . . . brighter.

Wow, I must have really offended you guys with my license plate post. It's really becoming a tag team out there. SOORRRYYY.

My point was that the H4s are pretty old technology but they were the best you could get in their day. As good a vehicle as they are, BMW X3s are not as likely to outrun their headlights as a 30 year old SC and yet their headlights are brighter than H4s even with 100W bulbs.

THE, you have an interesting way of twisting what I write to make it come out completely different. Maybe you should just get yourself a beer and chill out. Let's try to have a little fun out there. Your opinion, my opinion, big deal ... don't take (or make) things so personal, please.

tcar · 03-16-2008, 08:17 AM

Roger,
Not trying to offend. (Want to stay on the second Saturday breakfast list

).

You're correct, modern HID lights are much brighter (maybe because of the close focus and color spectrum).

the · 03-16-2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbuswell

Wow, I must have really offended you guys with my license plate post. It's really becoming a tag team out there. SOORRRYYY.

My point was that the H4s are pretty old technology but they were the best you could get in their day. As good a vehicle as they are, BMW X3s are not as likely to outrun their headlights as a 30 year old SC and yet their headlights are brighter than H4s even with 100W bulbs.

THE, you have an interesting way of twisting what I write to make it come out completely different. Maybe you should just get yourself a beer and chill out. Let's try to have a little fun out there. Your opinion, my opinion, big deal ... don't take (or make) things so personal, please.

I think you are having some reading comprehension issues. I have not even responded to anything you have posted here (so therefore it is impossible to have twisted anything), and, in fact, I completely agree with everything you have posted in this thread.

equality72521 · 03-16-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the

I think you are having some reading comprehension issues. I have not even responded to anything you have posted here (so therefore it is impossible to have twisted anything), and, in fact, I completely agree with everything you have posted in this thread.

You quoted him and replied to his comments in post #13.

the · 09:56 AM

That is incorrect. I actually quoted and responded to tcar's post No. 10.

tcar messed something up when he quoted rbuswell in tcar's post No. 10. (Look at the first line of Post No. 10). So when I quoted Post No. 10 and responded to it, tcar's error carried over.

Didn't seem like that was too hard to figure out, though. rbusswell and I agree on the subject of H4s. My post has nothing to do with anything rbuswell had posted.