Wayne's Top Engine Pics

[justinp71]

Okay I am rebuilding a 3.0L and not worried about smog. For starters it will atleast have headers on it.

There are two motors in Wayne's book that are catching my eye:

1.) 3.0/ 964 cam/ CIS/ 9.5:1 cr, Wayne says that this should have 30-50 more hp than stock.

2.) 3.0/ S Cam/ Webbers/9.5:1 cr (JE pistons).

My question would be does anyone know how much horsepower each configuration should be putting out?

[Wayne 962]

I like #2, it's basically close to what I have in my RS Clone...

-Wayne

[jax911]

I have #1 setup, but with euro 9.8 comp pistons. LOVE IT. Never dyno'd but it has been estimated that this setup makes around 220 hp, which is really nice over stock 185.

[Gary.H]

I have an '82 Euro 3.0L (standard Euro 9:8.1 pistons) on CIS with SSIs. It made 216.6bhp (hey the .6 is important ) on a reliable dyno and really flew.

It's currently being rebuilt with Mahle 9:8.1 pistons and cylinders and oem 964 cams. The heads are being polished and I have race valve springs and TI retainers. I've also added a Sachs Power clutch and a lightweight aluminium pressure plate. ie pretty much option #1 (but with higher compression)

Will hopefully be dyno'd in a few weeks time.

[Rich76_911s]

I had at least part of #2 for a while. Not sure what cams were in it or the compression ratio, the throttle response of the webers (40 IDA-3C) is really great, and will make your car "feel" faster in that regard. The ability to have higher lift cams will also give you added horsepower. They sound a lot better than CIS too. Sorry I don't have any Dyno #'s to share.

These are the settings that I believe were on my car running at sea level:
Part-------------------Size
Air correction Jet------160
Main Jet---------------140
Secondary Venturi-----4.5
Emulsion tubes - - - - -F3
Idle jet- - - - - - - - - - 60
Main Venturi (choke) ??

What year 3.0L engine are you rebuilding? I think the switch to webers may require you to find a different distributor for 1980 and newer engines. You can either go with a 78 or 79 distributor or upgrade to a crank-fire ignition system, which is what my car had.

Carbs have their challenges, but if you don't mind tuning them every once in a while. As well as decreased gas mileage, the returns can be very pleasing particularly with the higher compression ratio and higher lift cams.

[SC-targa]

Originally Posted by Gary.H

I have an '82 Euro 3.0L (standard Euro 9:8.1 pistons) on CIS with SSIs. It made 216.6bhp (hey the .6 is important ) on a reliable dyno and really flew.

Is that measured rear wheel HP or is that an estimate of flywheel HP?

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

[justinp71]

Originally Posted by jax911

I have #1 setup, but with euro 9.8 comp pistons. LOVE IT. Never dyno'd but it has been estimated that this setup makes around 220 hp, which is really nice over stock 185.

What year car is it in?

I am rebuilding an '81, I didn't think of the dizzy thanks!!!

[ninesixfour]

Originally Posted by Gary.H

I have an '82 Euro 3.0L (standard Euro 9:8.1 pistons) on CIS with SSIs. It made 216.6bhp (hey the .6 is important ) on a reliable dyno and really flew.
.

What muffler are you using?

[Gary.H]

Originally Posted by SC-targa

Is that measured rear wheel HP or is that an estimate of flywheel HP?

The 216.6bhp was calculated at the flywheel, extrapolated from the figure measured at the wheels and using a calculated % drivetrain loss. The dyno machinery (at the Silverstone racing circuit in the UK) has software that measures the engine dyno versus chassis dyno read outs and applies those losses to the various dyno modes. It's more accurate than 8% losses or 10% or whatever rule of thumb other dynos use and is not alterable by the user.

Basically it's pretty accurate. We've had guys get an almost identical reading from runs over a year apart.

[justinp71]

Originally Posted by Gary.H

I have an '82 Euro 3.0L (standard Euro 9:8.1 pistons) on CIS with SSIs. It made 216.6bhp (hey the .6 is important ) on a reliable dyno and really flew.

It's currently being rebuilt with Mahle 9:8.1 pistons and cylinders and oem 964 cams. The heads are being polished and I have race valve springs and TI retainers. I've also added a Sachs Power clutch and a lightweight aluminium pressure plate. ie pretty much option #1 (but with higher compression)

Will hopefully be dyno'd in a few weeks time.

Are you replacing the pistons as a wear item or do the Mahle's have an advantage to the CIS pistons? (Assuming the new pistons are a different design to the CIS pistons).

[justinp71]

Does anyone have a horsepower rating for Engine #2?

[jpnovak]

using the same VE (output) ratio as an early engine with 9.5 compression and an Early S cam the output would be approximately 240 - 250 HP. I think there have been a few dyno reports in this output range.

Realistically, If you were going to do a JE piston with lots of valve clearance you might want to consider another cam like a ModS(DC40) or DC44 that would get you closer to 100 HP/L and put you in the 260-270 range.

of course, the same always is true. Speed costs Money, how fast do you want to go?

[Gary.H]

Originally Posted by justinp71

Are you replacing the pistons as a wear item or do the Mahle's have an advantage to the CIS pistons? (Assuming the new pistons are a different design to the CIS pistons).

Er.. kinda long story

Had a broken head stud, then engine got noisy, took it for a top-end rebuild since it had 147,000 miles on it and is driven 'hard'. When they stripped it the cylinders were worn right through the Nikasil and into the ally ! Knackered rings having done most of the damage (still making 216 though !?)

So...sprung for new Mahle (ie oem) CIS pistons and cylinders. I didn't want to up the compression because that would have meant twin plugging (more £££s).

You can only get so much hp out of a 3.0 before the CIS complains about the reversion from cams with long overlap and replacing the CIS is not in the current budget. I also have a couple of mates who have had some woes with high compression 3.0L engines with aggressive cams and CIS, so didn't want to go there.

Decided to go for a stable, slightly higher revving engine (I like to hang onto the gears ) with standard compression. As I said the old motor pulled like a train and if it wasn't for the headstuds I'd have left it alone for another season. If this one has the same performance I'll be happy. It's a reliability rebuild really, not a mega power one.

[myfast911]

what wrong with 3.5l upgrade? i really nlike that one.

[Gary.H]

Originally Posted by myfast911

what wrong with 3.5l upgrade? i really nlike that one.

Nothing wrong with it mate. Looked like the best power option to me - but the £££'s just weren't there for that kind of rebuild

[Brian 162]

I found a broken head stud. While having them replaced I went for option 1 with SSI heat exchangers.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

using the same VE (output) ratio as an early engine with 9.5 compression and an Early S cam the output would be approximately 240 - 250 HP. I think there have been a few dyno reports in this output range.

Realistically, If you were going to do a JE piston with lots of valve clearance you might want to consider another cam like a ModS(DC40) or DC44 that would get you closer to 100 HP/L and put you in the 260-270 range.

of course, the same always is true. Speed costs Money, how fast do you want to go?

Going to 3.2ss with the 964 cams, headers, and EFI with a common plenum yielded 230RWHP for me. Adding displacement is not difficult if you are already rebuilding.

[dweymer]

Why the need for a different dizzy? I am getting ready to rebuild a core 3 that had zeniths on it, but no dizzy.

[justinp71]

Originally Posted by sjf911

Going to 3.2ss with the 964 cams, headers, and EFI with a common plenum yielded 230RWHP for me. Adding displacement is not difficult if you are already rebuilding.

Does this include the MS II and the Twin plug that is in your sig? Does the MS II use part of the CIS or is it a whole induction system?

[Richard Burns]

If you are doing a full rebuild (replacing pistons etc) why not go to the 98mm pistons and barrels?
That would give you a short stroke 3.2 litre about 250hp.