car still cranks after key removal

[Sapporo Guy]

Now WTF is going on.

This has happened to me twice now.

I try to start my 82 SC and it will continue to crank over endlessly even if I pull the key out and walk away from it ... ?!?!?!

No, I'm not trying to ghost ride it

The first time I started to panic and started kicking away at the dam battery

Tonight I got smarter I put it into gear and turned the key to the start postion, it then went into a bucking fit and decided to die.

I then go into the engine compartment and check on the pop-off value ... lo and behold it flew the coop.



Is there a safer way to deal with this?
Is this normal? (referring to the ability to crank over without the key)

[DanielDudley]

You want to get this fixed right away, because if the starter chews up the ring gear on the flywheel, you will be pulling the engine.

My guess is that the solenoid on the starter is sticking, and a replacement starter is what is called for. I don't see how the ignition switch could cause this, but I am a carpenter, and not a mechanic.

As I said, you don't want to keep driving until it becomes a real problem. LOL

[Sapporo Guy]

ugh ... I want to pull the engine for fun ... but not for major repairs

When I pull the key, all electricity for the dash goes off.

You might be right

[Paulporsche]

Your popoff valve disappeared?

[john walker's workshop]

it's already too late. the starter gear and the ring gear are chewed up and won't let go of each other. engine out, new ring gear, and either replace the starter bendix drive or just get a complete rebuilt starter. when the starter solenoid is activated, it extends the starter drive gear into the ring gear teeth. it's contacts remain contacted and deliver power to the starter as long as the drive gear is engaged with the ring gear, key off or not.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You want to get this fixed right away, because if the starter chews up the ring gear on the flywheel, you will be pulling the engine.

My guess is that the solenoid on the starter is sticking, and a replacement starter is what is called for. I don't see how the ignition switch could cause this, but I am a carpenter, and not a mechanic.
As I said, you don't want to keep driving until it becomes a real problem. LOL

Sapporo,

First of all, I'm not an expert and this is just my humble opinion on this subject. I will categorize your problem as 'electrical'. Your starter/solenoid will not be running at all after you pulled the key away if it was not energized. The starter gets power during start position only from the ignition switch. Secondly, the motor should stop when you turn the ignition off.

So it's obvious to me that your problem is caused by a faulty ignition switch or a related wiring anomaly. Why?
1). Engine should stop running when key is removed.
2). Starter should not be energized when ignition switch is not at START position.

Even assuming that the starter and solenoid valve are defective, the starter unit should NOT be running when there is no POWER!!!!!. Just my two-cents.

DD,

I agree mostly in your assessment about the problem except, that I consider the ignition switch the main culprit of the 'unwanted electron flow' to the starter unit.


Tony

[john walker's workshop]

the starter solenoid has a direct battery connection at all times. when the starter is in extended mode, the internal solenoid contacts between battery power and power to the starter are connected and cause the starter to operate. it doesn't need any signal from the key any more. if the gears get stuck together, it just keeps on cranking until the gear retracts and the solenoid contacts separate.

[SXSMAN]

Johns probably spot on .

I'll throw one more thing in for your consideration .

I've seen battery voltage problems cause solenoids to stick . I'd have the battery checked for voltage and load test .

SxS

[Gunter]

Sapporo man:
You have all kinds of problems and it sounds like you need to do major maintenance all around.
Time for a complete overhaul.

[3.2 CAB]

I do see a starter removal in your near future. Then you can look at it to see if it has damage to the teeth on the bendix drive. If it looks undamaged and feels like there are no burrs on the teeth, it may be that just the big contacts inside have "welded" I have seen the solenoid do this before. I have seen it on the starter mounted type and on the fender mounted type solenoids(non Porsche application). If you do see any type of damage to the starter gear teeth, it may be too late. But, before I would start doing an engine drop, I would get a helper, maybe just for company, but I would inspect the ring by rotating the crankshaft. You might want to remove the spark plugs, so it will be easier to rotate the crank. The car will need to be up high enough for you to be able to look at the ring gears teeth after the starter is removed. You might have to use mirrors and a light source, or if you have a bore scope you should be able to see it just fine, to check for damage on the ring gear. Hopefully, it is only just the solenoid contacts fried together. If this is not the case, John, has already broken that news to you. Good luck!! Tony.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

the starter solenoid has a direct battery connection at all times. when the starter is in extended mode, the internal solenoid contacts between battery power and power to the starter are connected and cause the starter to operate. it doesn't need any signal from the key any more. if the gears get stuck together, it just keeps on cranking until the gear retracts and the solenoid contacts separate.

John,

Thanks for the info. It never occured to me the direct wiring connection of the solenoid terminal #30 to the battery. As usual you are the source of valuable tip and information. Your contribution and sharing technical knowledge in this board is priceless!!!! You are generous and helpful to our needs. I bow my head to you.

Tony

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

the starter solenoid has a direct battery connection at all times. when the starter is in extended mode, the internal solenoid contacts between battery power and power to the starter are connected and cause the starter to operate. it doesn't need any signal from the key any more. if the gears get stuck together, it just keeps on cranking until the gear retracts and the solenoid contacts separate.

That makes sense. Next question:

Should this happen to anyone (especially me) what would be the plan to make it quit? Would not putting it in gear stop the engine from turning over...albeit after a bit of grinding gear noises!

[FPB111]

Undo the wing nut on the body and pull the ground strap. Big sparks. John if it started would that be enough to kick the bendix out?

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

That makes sense. Next question:

Should this happen to anyone (especially me) what would be the plan to make it quit? Would not putting it in gear stop the engine from turning over...albeit after a bit of grinding gear noises!

I put a rebuilt starter on my rx-7. On that one as long as the car starts all is well. If not I have a 10 mm wrench in the consul for such occasions. Either that or the battery runs down pretty quick.

[3.2 CAB]

I have seen starters that have gotten "hung up" with the ring gear. It does not take much time for the engine to over-run the starter and ruin the bendix or even more damage is done. I really think that our cars need a quick disconnect battery connection, so we can kill the current if the need comes up. I have one on my car, and I also have them on all of my other collector cars and trucks, because if you let something get fried on one of those, it is very difficult if not impossible to be able to get replacement parts easily. I think it is a very wise investment of $5.00 to prevent possible problems.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by FPB111

Undo the wing nut on the body and pull the ground strap. Big sparks. John if it started would that be enough to kick the bendix out?

battery disconnect, either clamp, is the only way to stop the starter. it will stop, but may still be hung up in the ring gear. generally, if it did it once, it will do it again, so get started on the repair. you can feel the ragged teeth on the ring gear through the starter mounting hole.

[Gunter]

+1 on the quick-disconnect.
I have one on the neg. terminal on all vehicles.

[3.2 CAB]

I bought a brick package of the quick disconnect battery connectors. I think that there was 12 of them in it. I have 1 that is not in use.