Thanks for the tips. I heard about the chain sprocket issue and need to look into that. I imagine that I will use a new chain.

The pistons will stay on the shelf since I am going to purchase JE pistons with slightly higher compression.

About the cleaning ... I guess that my best bet is to find a local machine shop and see if they will do it. I tried calling some transmission clinics to see if they would run my stuff through ... no dice on that.

Boring garage stuff ...
 

More photos of everything shelved and in its proper place.

A little boring, but I thought it might show that 1/2 of a garage is plenty of space for a rebuild. Most of the parts fit nicely on the shelf next to the water heater. The case internals are still on the work table.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208734672.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208734684.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208734697.jpg

There are 3 sprockets in the whole train.
I suggest:
Chain sprocket (Drivers) new with new chain.
Cam sprockets (Driven) re-use
Idler sprockets (Tensioners) re-use.
The Carrera tensioners in the '82 engine may be an updated version over the ones in the '80 engine?

Crank is inspected and just polished if the journals are still good; measure to see if Standard/Standard bearings can be used.

Rods:
Usually, they are lightly machined/trued to get any oval out of the large bore.
A shop will need the old rod bolts and one wrist pin to fit new brass bushings.
Use ARP rod bolts when fitting the rods to the crank; ARP can be repeatedly opened, OEM bolts cannot!

I would keep the Mahle pistons if they are in spec; a US '80 SC 3.0 has 9.3 : 1 CR and you wouldn't gain much more with JE's for single plug.
Besides, you can increase the CR by shaving a few thou off the heads.

964-cam grind is good; I suggest 1.4 overlap with CIS.
Instead of JE pistons, spend the money on SSI's and a flow-through muffler to gain some horses (Aircare nothwithstanding?).

Find a good shop with Porsche-experience; they should be able to do the heads and rods for you and inspect/polish the crank.
Camgrinder can do the cams and refurbish the rockers.
Send the rocker shafts along to see if they're still good.
Some people replace all head studs with steel; some just do the exhaust ones.
Check/clean all oil ports in the case, cam towers, crank.

Oh, what fun. :)

Great info! Thanks!

I didn't know the Carrera tensioners went through some modifications. The tens on the 82 were done about 3 years ago ... not sure about the 80. Any specifics on this?

Also, the 80 engine has all steel head studs. It looks like it has been rebuilt already. Is it okay to keep the steel head studs or should I still replace the exhaust side?

The info regarding the JE pistons is great too. Currently my 82 has headers installed by PO. Do the SSIs really produce that much more HP compared to other headers on the market?

mca, what size JE Piston's are you going to get? I want to use my Mahle cylinders as well but I would like to bore them out from 95mm to 98mm if possible. What set up are you going to use for your P&C ?

95mm cylinders from an SC 3.0 cannot be bored out to 98mm because of the gasket-groove on top.
EBS uses 95mm cylinders from Carrera 3.2 engines to bore/plate to 98mm because Carrera cylinders don't have the groove.

Stick with OEM Mahle P/C's if you have them. :)

If you want 98mm, find a set of Max-Moritz (Very expensive) or find a set of Carrera P/C's and send them to EBS for machining to 98mm (Not cheap either)

Either way, the 98mm conversion is not cheap and by itself is not a huge HP-gain; you'll need to do more to get to 230 horses.

I have a thread on building my SS 3.2.

It's fun but costly. :)

After further consideration, it looks like I am going to keep everything stock except for the cam regrind (964 style). I just can't justify spending 12-15k on a car that is only worth 15-17k. If I had ample amounts of $$, I would probably go the distance with engine improvements.

If, however, my pistons are determined to be worthless then I will go with the JEs.

Yep I'm in the same situation, my OEM P&C look decent, so I'm afraid I will be sticking to stock. I would love to do the 3.2 conversion! :mad:

Thanks!!

Everytime I see these kind of threads, I think about what my wife would do to me... and the lack of progress I would be making since I have two daughters, 5 and 1.

I have some questions for you guys. See pics please.



1) What happened to the threads? It isn't gunk and can't be wiped off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1209332048.jpg

2) Should I replace the distrubutor gear on the crankshaft? Take a look at that rough spot.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1209332173.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1209332188.jpg

Studs:
Are they all like that?
Case-side or head-side?
Could be hardened thread sealer; use new steel studs anyway.
Do not use a regular tap to clean out the threads in the case, use a thread chaser; it doesn't cut more material out of the threads; it just cleans.

Distributor gear:
Just the little notch on top?
I would re-use it.
If you do remove it, make a mark on the outside! They have to go back on a certain way to ensure correct timing!

That stud is the case-side. Two of them look like that. Looks like I will replace those.

Not just two; replace all 12 on the exhaust side for sure with steel studs.
Some people do all 24.
Correct height: 135mm re Wayne's book page 137.

You can make a clean-out tap by using an old stud:
Cut a V-notch along the length of the thread with a Zip-cutter; all you want is to clean it out without making chips.

All of the studs are steel. They have already been replaced in the past.

Received some news today from EBS. They have my heads,rods,camshafts,pistons and cylinders.

Here is what is being done:

HEADS
Valve job
Resurface heads
12 valve guides
12 valve springs
6 exhaust valves
6 intake valves
6 time-serts

PISTONS
Piston rings worn beyond specs. Replacing with JE 9.5:1 pistons.

CYLINDERS
Ok (thank God)

ROCKERS
Ok

RODS
Reconditioning all of them.

CAMSHAFTS
Regrind to 964 specs

The total cost for this work will be in the neighborhood of $3k. It would have been nice if I could have re-used the pistons ... but so it goes. I am trying to keep this rebuild at or below $5k. I certainly think it is doable since I won't be messing with the exhaust or clutch. We shall see.

I took the case, crank, intermediate shaft and oil pump to Rennsport (Charleston,SC) for inspection. Everything is good except for the backlash. Seems that the aluminum gear on the intermediate shaft is worn ($200). Going to have to replace this - requires machine shop press so I will have local machine shop do this work.

That is all for now. Next step is to get my stuff cleaned up and start ordering from Pelican!

Cheers,
Craig

nice, i was going to do 2.7 rebuild but no time and sold it. question, how difficult was it to remove the exhaust? I'm trying to get mine off to replace with ssi. should i take the car to an exhaust guy and burn them out?

Well, it depends ... if you have the tool that can reach through the heat exchangers to the exhuast nuts then that will greatly facilitate the process.

I didn't have the tool but had other approriate tools that did the job. I tore one exhaust stud up pretty bad though and must have damaged some others pretty good too. The machine shop has to replace 6 of my exhaust studs!

But to answer your question ... it was a pain.

I have the right tool. the ones from the 2.7 came off in a breeze. the 3.0 ones are a p.i.t.a... soaking in WD right now, for about.... 2 beers. haven't tried again.

subscribed - thanks for sharing

I pulled mine off when the engine was on a stand. Can't imagine trying to get them off from underneath the car. It was tough enough doing it standing up.

Try some of that PB Blaster stuff. It works pretty well - better than WD40 for sure.

Oh, and I had at least 3 studs back out of the cylinder heads. The nuts were so rusted / stuck that when the nut was turned it was actually turning the entire stud. Fun.

I am not an expert on this, but from the pictures it looks as if that stud stripped some metal from inside the case. You think? Can you tell if is metal on there?

However, seems like if the stud pulled out of the case you may have seem more lodged on the end. Hmmm? If it were me, I would seriously take a look at the case side. Just my .02 cents.SmileWavy

Throw a bit of heat on the area that looks like it is piled up. If it is a sealer it should melt or smoke. If it is metal it shouldn't do too much.
Even a lighter may give you an indication.
That is the end of the stud that receives the nut, yes?

MCA,

I just noticed this thread. I rebuilt my 3L last winter. I am new to Porsche engines, so I took a ton of pictures during disassembly. I rebuilt my alternator, starter, distributor, CIS and transmission while I was in there as well. Some pictures are located here.

I just skimmed thru this thread, but if you haven't already, I would highly recommend you get a parts washer and either build or buy (I built) a small media blasting hood. Glass shot does a beautiful job on aluminum parts, then use an engine enamel clear coat. Sand or something called "black beauty" works best on steel/sheet metal parts that are going to be painted/powder coated.

Geoff

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1210510771.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1210510783.jpg

Hey Geof... whats happening? Have you finished your car??
Hope all is well... SOS on my end...
Bob

Bob,

Still pluggin' away at it. Doing body work this weekend (have a look at the photo blog to see progress- link below). The general plan is to have it ready for paint sometime this summer. I'd like to be starting to put it back together this fall/winter. I spent the winter rebuilding the suspension/brakes/steering et cetera. You should stop by for a visit.

Geoff

As always Geoff... simply amazing what you have done to that car... you certainly have a great skill there!!!
Bob

Good idea. I have a propane torch that I can use.

Yep, that is the nut side ... not case side.

Goodness ... that is a lot of work. I would have trouble keeping up with all of the parts if I was working on engine, tranny, cis, dizzy, etc all at the same time.

Looks great though! Do you miss driving it? I imagine you can't wait to get it on the road.

I am having a machine shop do all of the major cleaning and I will do the final stage of cleaning.

Looks like some sort of sealer that piled up behind the nut as it was tightened.

Exactly right ... I just burned it off with the torch. Thanks for addressing that question. Much appreciated.

Update:

I have all of my parts from Pelican. I should be getting my stuff back from EBS late next week - everything is ready except for the pistons. Apparently JE had to make some more.

This gives me some time to start cleaning the case. I had it washed but the job was so so. I wish it wasn't going to be in the mid 90s this weekend.

Ah... The lovely S.C. heat. It's like being a screen door away from hell.

Start early when its only 70. You will hardly notice the heat once you are drenched in sweat.

Let me know if you need any help. Not with cleaning mind you but I can hold a light or hand you some tools.

mca, did you end up replacing the distributer gear? I also had a rough spot identical to yours? The guy's at Ollie's assured me that it wasn't a big deal.. Take pictures of your reassembly and make sure you have plenty of Scotch brite and Carb cleaner. I stocked up on that stuff!

Sorry for the delayed reply! For some reason I did not get an email notification.

I did not replace the dizzy gear. I filed it down to remove the rough edge. Should be good to go.

I finally finished all of the case cleaning after 40+ hours following a wash at the machine shop. I am sick of cleaning.

Last night I assembled the crank shaft. Next step is the case!

I will post pictures later. Wife has camera.

Ok, here are some pics and I have some questions.

Do I fill these holes with JB Weld? The others (plugs) around the case are all flush with the case surface but these two (in the pics below) are about 1/4 inch deep. Am I missing something?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214784672.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214784684.jpg



Is this a flaw in the case? Looks like some of the case surface broke free. Should I fill with JB Weld?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214784740.jpg


Here is a pic of the finished crank and one of the heads I got back from EBS.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214784798.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214784827.jpg



Yes, the parts have found their way inside the house. My wife has been quite understanding ... gotta love that.

Did you ever figure out why 3 had no Compression? Sure looked fine in the pictures? I wonder if it had a stuck open valve some way?

Is that "hunk" missing from the case going through to a passage?

40 hours cleaning the case.....man I just do not have the patience for that. Looks beauftiful!

Really take your time on resealing the case halves. I know of several people that have done this and then ended up with a leak at the seam. very disheartening after all of the time.

Really looks exciting. I am going to have to try this!

mca:
Re: 3rd picture.
It's not broken; they all look like that. Do not fill with JB-weld, just remove some of the jagged edges if there are any and leave it.
Re: Crank.
Are the rod bolts torqued for final? What type rod bolts?
Re: Cleaning case.
Did you remove both pressure relieve valves for cleaning?
Blow out all oil passages so they are clean without obstructions.

Follow Wayne's book for crank-installation but DO NOT put the main oil seal on the crank.
Install the oil seal much later flush with the case when the case-halves are together.
Did you get new tab-washers for the oil pump or are you re-using the old ones?

Never found out why it had no compression. Couldn't see anything that would point to that kind of result.

Rod bolts are torqued to final specs and I used the standard bolts (new originals).

Pressure and relief pistons were removed for cleaning and passages are clear.

I certainly won't put the flywheel seal in until after the case is together. Seems to be the general consensus on this forum.

I have new tab-washer for the oil pump.

Thanks for clarifying that questionable area in the case. I won't mess with it as the edges seem smooth.


So ... should I fill those recessed plug holes with JB Weld (pics 1 and 2) ?