Need Help and Suggestions for Performance Modifications Section of the New Book...

[Wayne 962]

Hey everyone. Time for some peer review. I'm working on the section of the book (the Engine Rebuilding book) where I will talk about enhancements and improvements. So far, I've got this divided up into 2 categories:

The first part details and documents which upgrades and modifications that I would recommend when rebuilding your 911 engine. Also what parts should be required to be replaced. Almost all of these are reasonably low-cost, will increase the reliability and performance of your 911 engine without reducing its overall life expectancy. These are the upgrades that I would recommend that you perform if you are rebuilding your engine. A good example would be the addition of the Carrera chain tensioners, or replacement of Dilavar head studs. Following my suggestions in this part will yield a strong, more reliable engine.

The second part of this chapter is where I discuss what can be done on a somewhat unlimited budget. Here is the exciting stuff that will cost a fortune, give you more horsepower, and significantly reduce the overall life of your engine. But it’s all worth it for the increased throttle response at the track. Some examples would include running high-compression pistons, twin-plugging, or running a supercharger.

The point being that there are probably two categories of upgrades (stock and improvements) and HP-type improvements. Trouble is, there are probably some that fit in-between. Here is an incomplete list of what I have so far in both categories. Please give me your suggestions as to ones that I might have left out (again, this is still in the construction phase of this chapter).

Stage I:

- 1976 Oil Pump Upgrade & Bypass Mod
- Post 1983- pump mods
- Intermediate shaft inspect & replace (if needed)
- Carrera Chain Tensioners
- Chain ramp replacement
- Idler Arm upgrade
- Timing Chain Replacement
- Valve Guide replacement
- Valve Spring Replacement
- 5-blade fan upgrade
- Air block off plate
- Engine Sheet metal modification
- Turbo Valve covers
- New cam oil lines
- Re-reringing pistons
- Installation of 2.2 pistons on 2.4 motor (HP compresson)
- Head stud replacement (3.0-3.2)
- Time-cert install (mag cases)
- Case Squaring & Align boring
- Crank polishing
- Rod resizing / bushing replacement
- Main bearing/int shaft/rod bearing replacement
- Replacement of all seals

Stage II:

- 2.0 to 2.2 piston upgrade
- Cam swapping / Regrind
- Twin plugging high compression motors
- Running electromotive systems
- Carb Installation / MFI install
- Back-dated exhaust
- Running 964 cams in the CIS cars
- Running higher compression pistons in CIS cars
- Modifying early 2.0L sandcast cases for later crank and rods
- Supercharger / Turbo
- Porting / Polishing
- Boat-tailing the case
- Shuffle-pinning
- Light-weight flywheel
- HP clutch packages

This is going to be a tough chapter to assemble, because I want to hit the basics, present it in a clear, concise format, and clearly indicate the things that should be upgraded or replaced when performing any rebuild. I also don't want to leave out too much stuff on the HP end, however, much of this information is indeed covered in Bruce's book. I will probably revamp the information in a clearer format, however, not go into painstakingly precise detail on what needs to be done (like the exact locations where the machine shop needs to drill for the shufflepins, etc.)

What do you think? What did I leave out? I'd like to know... Again, this is mostly off the top of my head right now, so I'm sure I probably forgot something obvious...

-Wayne

[pbs911]

Are you going to cover on specific years or are you including the 964 and 993 3.6 motors?

[Wayne 962]

For this edition of the book, I am covering 1965-89 only.

-Wayne

[Moses]

Why not evaluate the relative costs/merits of adding turbo vs. supercharging. There have been some lively discussions on this board about that.

[Wayne 962]

While a good suggestion, and probably worth a half-page or so in the book, both turbo and supercharging are a bit beyond the scope of the book.

-Wayne

[JSDSKI]

What about catagories or levels of upgrades?

1) based upon dollars: $500-1000, 1100-1500 etc
2) based upon hp increase: 5-10, 20-40
3) based upon driving needs: street, street-perf, private track- DE,

Or a menu driven system:
Pick upgrades from column A or B, then you should do items 3,4,5 in column C. Where Col. A would have P&C sets and Col. B would have fuel delivery systems. The p&c and fuel sys chosen would then lead to recommended changes in oil supply or case mods. (this is probably too complex given the variables)

in terms of items:
nikasil plating of cylinders
recutting piston grooves for thicker rings
twin plug heads
cam/ignition/fuel sys/P&C combos that work in the real world (w/o a weekly ace wrench massage)
pointless ignition
plugs/CR/ignition combos
ignition wire upgrades
pointless ignition
rocker shaft seals

[Tony911Z]

As an unbiased SC owner, I'm interested in 3.0>3.2 and 3.4 conversions, 964 cam regrinds, head porting & polishing, and CIS tweaks.

[JimNB]

A great fetaure of the 101 book is the time allocation for the jobs.

Not only does it help for planning but for also undersatnding what your mechanic is telling you is necessary.

I second the thoughts of JSDSKI. A menu type of approach would be a great way of presenting the information.

[danielt]

Aftermarket fuel injection like the electromotive conversion kit you sell for CIS cars.

[Wayne 962]

Hmm, menu... Do you mean table or flowchart? It's difficult to present information in a 'menu' in a book format. I was thinking of something like:

2.0L engine

Replace pistons with 2.2 cost $800 Notes on what's involved


2.7L engine
Use High Comp Pistons Cost $1000 Notes: blah blah blah

Trouble is, there are almost an infinite number of options, and although this is included in the scope of the book, it's not the core of the book. I would say that would be more of the core of Bruce's book.

As for aftermarket fuel injection and other fuel injection system. This is an engine rebuild book, and thus I will not be talking about fuel injection systems too much, except where it pertains to the performance section, and also the core engine (like the electromotive twin-plug system).

I'm running into similar problems as I was with the 101 book - compromises. Obviously, some projects in 101 are overviews (like the engine rebuild chapter for example). In a similar manner, some of the information in this book is going to be overviews as well. I just don't have enough space to cover step-by-step rebuilding of your engine, AND all the performance options that are available as well. I wish I could, but I have to keep to the core of the book.

-Wayne

[hilandscott]

As I have been researching the 911SC upgrades while my own engine is being rebuilt, I think a section similar to above is in order. Looking at a recent post of Noah's that concurs for the 3.0, the cost effective upgrades for a '78-'83 that don't compromise durability and are worth the cost/effort:

964 (or webcam 20/21) grind cams
9.5-9.8 JE pistons
SSI (early style) headers and exhaust

The cams and pistons are recommended when rebuilding, as the parts cost is worth it for the gain. The exhaust is within abilities of a patient DIY, though involve stubborn exhaust studs and changes to oil lines. All of these keep the CIS for reliability and smog, though SSI isn't legal in CA.

I was able to get my cams and exhaust used, so even more cost-effective. The CR is an issue for Western 91 octane gas, and 9.5:1 is safest upgrade to avoid detonation. The cheap Georgia 93 octane works for 9.7/9.8:1 increase with correct timing.

I'd like to see if there are other upgrades that fit into such a category, paying attention to legality of mods for smog rules.

[82SC]

just so you know what I have gathers concerning the 3.0 and 3.2L engines from some of the engine builders:

well this is my formula that I have come up with extensive talks with andial and rennsport systems and AASE motors and EBS

Start with a 3.2L engine or a 3.0L with a 74.4 crank (3.2L)
3.2L heads
98mm or 100mm Mahles 9.8 or 10.3:1 CR
3 angle grind on the heads...EBS offers a 5 angle grind
Just smooth the heads or fully port them
drill to set up a twin plug
racing springs/Ti retainers
***REPLACING THE 9mm ROD BOLTS WITH 10mm***
ARP head studs
PMO's 50mm
S/RS cams
twin plug via 964 (cheaper)
SSI

I would also have a section about how to buy parts...with alot of the upgrades you are dealing with used parts...mentioning source...swapmeets...PCA, POC....Rennlist...

Also a Cavet emptor part about what questions to ask...maybe price ranges...example:

to source my 3.2L crank...I had it sent to EMS and they magnafluxed it and measured...no money exchanged hands until I got a call from EMS that is was good. Market price for crank and rods was about 1800...I got it for 1200 plus 60 to magnaflux

if EMS said the crank was no good, I offered to help pay for shipping, but nothing else...

tell them what to look for like a spun bearing on the 3.2L cranks because of the thin rod bolts.

how to buy used cams, is necessary used pistons and cyl, also even buying used cases and heads....what to look for...how to get thes parts checked...etc...

I think your book is targeted to that porsche owner that has tinkered but has not really dived into a full engine rebuild...so even some brief basic overview of how a system works (exapme exhaust or cams) can vastly help a DIY understand how to put it together and fix it...kind of like what Steve Weiner has on his site...what does porting do, what is the advantage of 2x plug, etc...

Can't wait to see the book...

MJ

[HawgRyder]

Wayne...as an old hotrodder ...there are many things that can be done to an engine while building to give more HP.
eg: knife edge crank counterweights....ridge cut between the first and second ring lands....use double bearing sets to get 360 Deg oiling....feather the under-edge of rings to give Dykes effect.....use Total-Seal rings....Viton seal the shafts/heads/cyl's....use hollow pressure seal rings on the heads.....long drill the rods to give pressure lube to the wrist pins.....under or break cut the valve stems to cause ripple flow...also ripple the floor of the intake port....binary the exhaust port....put anti-reversion cones in the exhaust headers...
The list goes on....and comes from years of looking into the rules books and doing things that are NOT listed.
Bob

[RoninLB]

IMO, the engine doesen't run without an electrical system. The 911 elec. for the engine is wide open to upgrades, and sw. maintence. Should an added ground to tranny mount from starter be cable or strap? Which trany mount bolt is more effective? In engine computer system how does "grounds" from accesories affect engine computers? The Lunar Module computers kept crashing from interference from other systems. A 54in section of shielded ground cable was added and wraped around a bulkhead[wrench style] to prevent computer problems days before takeoff. I may be off-base here on this topic....Ron

[HawgRyder]

If correctly grounded...all individual ground wires should end up at the same terminal.
This is probably the negative of the battery.....but...that means ALL grounds have to be long enough to reach the actual battery. Very impractical in fact. So....most electronics I have worked on have a buss bar that all wires go to....one for the positive...and one for the negative.
If you want to avoid ground loops and to some extent, cross-talk, then this is the professional way to do it.
Bob

[Wayne 962]

All good stuff. I will have to consolidate this information into a clear an concise format. Not too sure about the "where to buy parts" question, as that might raise conflict of interest issues. In general, I only recommend myself (Pelican), which is one of the primary advantages (and reaons why) of writing books like these.



Obviously, there is a really wide variety of performance options out there. I'm not arrogant enough to claim that I know them all (hence this post). There have been some things mentioned in the previous posts that I don't even quite recognize. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to take advantage of all the knowledge of this BBS, and combine it into useful information that can be compiled in the book.

I've changed the way this information is presented in this Chapter:

Stage I - must replace items or don't bother rebuilding
(valve guides, seals, piston rings)

Stage II - recommended upgrades
(time-certs, head studs, Carrera Chain tensioners)

Stage III - the wallet breakers
Twin plug, knife-edging, larger pistons

I suppose that I can post (for public review) the Stage III section, and see if anyone else has stuff to add to it. Trouble is, you can probably write an entire book on just this subject. For those of you who don't already know, here is what is already in the book

0 - Intro
1 - When to Rebuild?
2 - Engine Drop
3 - Engine Teardown
4 - Parts Inspection / Machine Shop
5 - Upgrades (Stage I, II, III)
6 - Reassembly
7 - Break-in / Dyno testing

Appendix A - Parts Diagrams and part numbers for all engine parts from 1965-89
Appendix B - Tech Spec Books information reproduced in one spot.

limit 240 pages, 350 color photos. Comes out to be about 100,000 words.

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Ok, I'll bite:

- 30-45-75 is the standard angle grind on the seats. What does the 5-angle grind buy you?

Bob (HawgRyder), I haven't heard of most of the things that you mention, but then again, I'm Mr. Stock configuration man. I think it would be useful (at the very least to me) to give all of us some more details on these?

-Wayne

[82SC]

personally I think it is a ploy for EBS to rip people off...

320hp is better then 220hp...so 5 must be better then 3...all I can think of is beter sealing...but the area is already so small...

when I do my car...I am going with the regular 3 angle...

And about getting parts I ment like looking for junk yards...PELICAN classifeds...well known junk yards like porsche haven...etc...not promoting tweeks and Perf prod...hahaha

BTW I saw Noah on the 405 yesterday...he pulled over and gave me a ride in his car...those 964 cams really give the mid range kick...

Wayne...you can't have an employee and representative of Pelican driving a car in that condition!!!! you should start a book...body and paint restoration and write off his car as a business expense!!! I heard your 2.7L is disassembled...sounds like fun...

Noah and I are planning a valve adjustment get together...maybe SoCal Pelicanheads are interested...it will probably be in Palos Verdes...we will keep all those interested udated...

[Wayne 962]

You guys can use my garage, if I get the engine book done by then.

Noah's and John's car are tied for worst-looking Porsche on the street. Sadly, I think that John might have a slight advantage on Noah...

-Wayne

[HawgRyder]

OK...Wayne asked for some clarification on terms that I used....here goes...
Knife-edge Crank....grind the leading edges of the crank counterweights until they cut through the oil mist in the crankcase cleanly...makes for less friction.
Ridge-cut pistons.....you put several (depending on the width) sawtooth shaped ridges on the side of the piston between the first and second ring....this makes a type of hydraulic ram effect at high speeds (piston speeds) that helps roll back the blow-by into the combustion chamber...(invented or first used by Bill Elliot of NASCAR) I think.
Double bearings....I use two sets of bearings to make one engine...in normal sets, only the lower shells have the oil groove..if you use two lower bearing shells, you get 360 deg oiling.
Feather rings....on the bottom side of the 1st and 2nd ring...you put a series of finger-nail like smooth indentations into the ring, starting just inside the face (shallow) extending to the inside face (deeper) ..this allows combustion pressure to get behide the ring at high piston speeds and push the ring out to the cyl wall.
Total Seal rings...easy...just the Manufactures name for the two-piece rings for the 1st and/or 2nd ring.
Viton O-rings....instead of gaskets in some cases....take a Dremel tool...make a shallow groove into the mating surfaces equal to about 40% of the diam of the o-ring.
Hollow ring heads....use nitrogen filled stainless o-rings to seal the haed to cyl.
Long Drill rods....exactly as it sounds...drill the rods from the wrist pin end all the way down to the con-rod bearing
Under Cut valves....make them look as much like Tulips as possible...weld them if necessary...like turn them down to get smooth transition into the chamber.
Ripple Ports...once again...weld shallow ridges into the bottom of the port to get the mixture to roll slightly and force the flow to point directly at the chamber.
Binary exhaust port....you put a divider into the port which looks like an aircraft wing...it fits around the valve stem and guide and ends up just outside of the port...(makes 12 ports instead of 6)...you also have to increase the size of each side slightly.
Anti Reversion cones...OK tuff one...if you were to look at the end of the header the fits against the head...you wouls see the big end of the cone..the small end extends into the header a 1/2" or more...it decreases the size of the header by about 15% (hole size)...but stops the pulses from coming back up the pipe into the chamber (back pressure).
Whew...long winded or what?
Bob