RS block worth getting?

Hi all,
I recently talked to a guy who says he has a '74 RS block sitting in storage that he's waiting to get rid of because he needs the money. I have yet to see the block but he wants $100 for it. I will definitely check the number on it and confirm with you all whether or not it's a RS block. I figured it's worth it RS or not just because it's a Porsche block for $100. I just bought a $200 carpet set(entire car) so I have done business with this guy. Old gentleman, doesn't seem like a liar. Any suggestions? Thanks!

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Jeff
1976 911S

Jeff,
The RS blocks, and by extension the '74-'76 2.7 Carrera blocks have a part number that ends with "7R". If it ends with "4R", it's a 2.4 block.
Heck, any block still useable is worth 100$
Regards, George

Jeff,
The RS blocks, and by extension the '74-'76 2.7 Carrera blocks have a part number that ends with "7R". If it ends with "4R", it's a 2.4 block.
Heck, any block still useable is worth 100$
Regards, George

Jeff,
The RS blocks, and by extension the '74-'76 2.7 Carrera blocks have a part number that ends with "7R". If it ends with "4R", it's a 2.4 block.
Heck, any block still useable is worth 100$
Regards, George

Ooops, sorry. I fell asleep on the button...
GeorgeK

There are two different versions of the 7R block, the 2.7 version which is identical to any other 2.7 with cylinder spigots for 90 mm cylinders, and the 2.8 version bored for 92 mm cylinders, but with the cylinder stud spacing distance/pattern of later 3.0 engines.

The later version certainly has value to vintage racers, but not much value to regular guys, as heads compatible with it are scarce! Bruce Anderson's 'handbook' has the details to identify which version of the 7R it is, if indeed, it is from an RS.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Thanks George and Warren,
I will go read Bruce Anderson's handbook and make sure it's a RS block when I go look at it. If it's a 2.7 RS block would I be able to use it? I strongly doubt it's a 2.8, but George you're right I figured a block for $100 RS or not is probably worth it. Thanks!

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Jeff
1976 911S

Hehehehe....almost exactly 9 months later I was finally able to get in touch with this guy again (today) and found out he still had the RS block. He told me that it was from a Carrera. I will be taking a look at it tomorrow morning. Anything I should be looking at as far as usability goes? Anything I should watch out for besides the obvious (cracks)? According to Bruce Anderson's book, the two versions are one with the casting #901.101.101.7R and one with #901.101.102.7R. The 102.7Rs come with both the original 92mm and the later 97mm spigots. Which one is the better one(if there is a such thing) and which should I be avoiding? Which is best for building a RS motor? Thanks!

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Jeff
1976 911S

Can somebody please help me out? Anybody? Please!

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Jeff
1976 911S

Hi,
I don't have the references with me, but it seems you should get the block with the same spacing as the 2.4-2.7 engines, if you intend to build an RS engine. There's an intermediate spacing, like Warren mentionned, but you will never find parts for it.
I hope someone has the measures to tell you.
GeorgeK

Oops...

[This message has been edited by GeorgeK (edited 05-16-2001).]

Jeff,

All of the 2.7 blocks had 80 mm stud spacing ... the interesting thing to know is what 'Type Number' and Engine number is stamped to the right of the mounting for the fan housing. The 'Carrera' engine designation obviously meant different things in the USA vs the rest of the world in '74 and '75!


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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Hello

Generally to find out if it is a usable block you have to look if the studs came loose. One indication is that the sourounding area gets whiter then the rest. Also look for "shufflemarks" in the main gallery. The case is complete machined to a given roughness. Those spots are very smoth and do light up different to the other surfaces.

Well thats normal even for lower milage but if you have seen some cases and know there age and usage you can "read" it like an oddometer. 2,8 RS cases would not show those signs as they have additional anti shuffle pins.

Watch for bigger scarfs on the sealing surfaces and for bad signs on the single long stud at the intermediate shaft galery. They get overthighten and come loose.

Watch for cracks done by spilting the case withot knowing whats up or lifting the car on the enginecase.

Watch for signs caused by crank or rod failures. ( The last is very easy to detect as they leave holes )

Look if the case come from a rear end accident.

However what you will do, the case needs messurements. Better previous you buy it but the trough is all used cases are geting oval main bores and need boring or the reuse from the original bearings.

BTW be aware that the bearings have different notches depending on the year.

Oh the 101 indicates the left side while the 102 indicates the right side of the case.

To find out if it is a mathing pair you have to look at one boss on the upper case studs. Alternator area. Both halves should have the same work number.

Also watch for additional sign saying: 025 or 0,25 or +25 ( same to 0,5; 0,75 ) This indicates overbore and those main bearings have very high prices. bearing 8 costs more then a set standard bearings.

Well if you need a case and it is usable it will be worth money but on the other side how does it happen that someone has a bare case left over ?

Also 74 RS would be a 911/77 a 911/83 is a then Standard 210 HP Euro Carrera. Other numbers are not worth to mention as noeone will search for them. The need a good case.

Building up a RS ? Be realistic. If you can´t afford a new case from the factory or have the parts somwhere on stock ( Maybe he has them ? ) it will be a illusion.

However using the 930 case is much better ( mybe thats what happend to the case, replaced by a aluminium unit )

7R race cases are normaly replaced on a 20-40000 mls basis ( get to weak )

Grüsse

Thanks Warren and George. You guys rock. I just came back from looking at the block...and now it's at my house . There were a few things I wasn't sure of, but for $100, I said what the hell and went for it. As far as the "type number" goes, there's two of 'em, one on each half. One is the 101.7R, the other, 102.7R. Am I just screwed, or just S.O.L (sh** out of luck)? The engine number is *6650444* (*=stars)...does that tell you anything?

The guy told me his is a '74 (I think) Carrera, imported from Germany by its previous owner. When dealing with the EPA he had to have the MFI system removed and a CIS system installed to pass emissions. The current owner went to get his engine rebuilt, unfortunately with a sly and cheating mechanic, who swapped out many of his unique and new parts with old and common ones. (he mentioned an italian distibutor with a name that started with a "D"). Anyway, this mechanic (happens to be the guy I bought the car from) told him he had a crack in his block (after gleaming at it and looking up the numbers in his reference book). It was changed out, but the owner, after finding many parts changed, decided to get the old block from the mechanic..and the mechanic was very reluctant to. So...sorry for the long story, but I now have a RS block!

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Jeff
1976 911S

Roland,
Thanks for the reply. I'm not exactly too sure about a lot of the things that you've mentioned, but I can tell you these things.

-the case didn't come from a rear end accident

-Oh. 101 and 102 stand for both sides? I thought I was screwed. Thanks.

-story about the case on my previous post

-why is building up a RS engine unrealistic? I have a 2.7 with 115K miles. Sooner or later I'm either going to have to do a rebuild or a replacement.

-I won't be doing too much racing. Not too much action here in Hawaii. Would a 7R block last longer than 40,000 miles?

-Give me a few hours and I'll post some pics. Hopefully it's not in that bad of a shape
Thanks!
(BTW what does Grusse mean? And how do you do that umlaut on the u?)

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Jeff
1976 911S

[This message has been edited by Rufblackbird (edited 05-16-2001).]

Jeff,

The 'Type Number'is on a horizontal surface to the right and slightly forward of the fan mount, and should be '911/83' as your engine serial number indicates an RS 2.7 engine for model year 1975, and the sequence number of 0444 means it would have been one of the last RS 2.7 engines ever built!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

OOps...I thought the 901 was part number..guess I was right. I didn't see any other number on the block so I just assumed that's what you were referring to. I just tried looking again..still can't see the number. I should get this thing cleaned up and maybe then I'll be able to see it (any suggestions on cleaning? It's been sitting since '95..is that a bad thing?)

So...if it is indeed a 911/83, a RS engine for '75, and one of the last RS engines ever built, is this a good, bad, or alright thing?

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Jeff
1976 911S

Hello

Good Storage will hurt nothing. Keep the case togehter and use some bolts so it will not fall apart.

Don´t use harsh things to clean it and after that spray it with conservation wax or light oil.

Block all holes for falling in debris.


After reading the story i wouldn´t have touched the part. I will never support thives and betrayer. Those People hurt the complete Porsche reputation. Also you never can be sure if he isn´t betraying you. They never will stick to there word and whatever he claims has to be proved or made with paperwork. Always back up with such people. Mybe ten years later you will be happy to have something to clear up the trail.

The only way to buy such a thing is ask the old owner if he is interesstet in trailing up and repossesing his lost values.

Just make clear who is the REAL owner from that part. You can´t own stolen parts.

In germany the law will draft the complete car and dissasemble it if they find a stolen part. Well this is done on your costs and they do not assemble the car back. They also use to cut away sections for reading the hidden bodynumbers. This is like the car is at the butcher.

Some people bought old stuff years ago and lost many money later.

However there is no technical difference beetween your actuall engine case and that RS engine case.

It is just the correct number and if you can use it it will make saleing easier as you have not to proof all. Value will be higher too. Especially if the owner from the original car trys to find the mathing #.

But if you buy a new case the factory can stamp in the original numbers.

To make a RS you need the Nicasil P&C, S rods and camshafts, S heads. The complete Injection with all the additionals and the heat exchanger oillines. Not to forget the front oil cooler setup. The crank needs some finetuning. 11 blade cooling fan.

The first stage would be to make the short block ready. Then later making the long block and use it with carbs in the car.

Grüsse

Roland, I think you read it wrong. Jeff bought his current car from the mechanic, a 1976 911S. The guy he bought the case from, took his car (the case guy, not Jeff) to the same mechanic, who screwed him over by swapping out parts without need. Same mechanic told the Case guy his case was cracked, and needed to be replaced. After this was done, case guy though things were fishy, and demanded his original case from the mechanic, then sold it to Jeff some years later.

That is the way I read it, anyway.

Tom

Thanks Tom, that's exactly what I meant. Sorry Roland for the confusion. I'd like to build the RS spec engine one day, if and when my 2.7 blows I can just drop it in and still drive the car. I did make the guy an offer. He's kinda er..elderly and I told him if he was to ever sell the car I'd buy it from him. I'd like to put the engine where it belongs, in a '74 Carrera. He says ok, he'd probably sell it for $4-5K in a few years...sounds good to me. I'll post some pics when the f@$%ing digital camera works again. Thanks for all the replies.

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Jeff
1976 911S