When to stop sinking money into it
 

I purchased my 84 Carrera about four years ago. It was in very good shape. The engine and trans were rebuilt at 200,000 miles. I purchased it at 250,000 miles. I paid $12,000. I have receipts totaling close to $18,000 that the previous owner spent on upgrades and repairs within two years of selling it to me. These do not include the engine or trans rebuild.
I myself have spent at least another $5000 on this car. I could sink another $5000 easily with upgrades I would like to do. Honestly its no custom monster 911. Just a very nice 84 Carrera. My Question is when is enough. When should you stop sinking money into a 84 911 with nearly 270,000 miles on it. There is no way I could ever get a fraction of the money back that has been put in this car.
Especially sense the paper work and receipts on the engine and trans rebuild no long exist. Please give me some advice on this.

I dont understand the question...you mean there is a point where you are supposed to stop.... :-)

Interesting concept.

Do you enjoy the car? Or when you drive it do you think about all the money you have in it?

A car is RARELY perhaps NEVER an investment, except through chance or really good luck. So stop worrying and have fun. Your car is probably worth 12K right now, and you've (on average) spent about $24 a week owning it. Go have some fun.

Laying out on keeping it up to scratch is part and parcel of owning a 24 year old 911. If you regard spending money on improving/maintaining your car as 'sinking money into it', then you might be into the zone where you should be looking at getting that Toyota you always promised yourself ;)

I look at it like this:

Even if I put $25,000 into a car over 6-8 years (which is way more than I will, even with my obsessive nature), that's still FAR less than it would cost for a "new" one of lesser quality and that would give me less enjoyment over the same period of time. AND it has the benefit of being discretionary. With an older car (particularly if one has a couple of them as "spares"), if something breaks or needs fixing, I can park it and fix it at my convenience (assuming I have another one running and "ready for action", which I always do). There's no obligation that's going to destroy my credit or put me in repossession should I fall on hard times. Yes, one needs to put money/effort/sweat equity into older vehicles, but ultimately there's less to worry about.

Unless you have a way of writing off the cost of a new car, I don't see the reason to ever get one. The depreciation alone is a HUGE loss. If you can't realize some tax benefit from that, why on earth would anyone ever be so stupid as to eat $10k-$30k just for driving a car home from a dealership? That's a pretty expensive few miles.

Not to mention I like the thought of "sticking it to the man" by having cheaper insurance rates, being able to carry "liability only" coverage, having lower registration costs, etc. Being smog exempt is nice too (in the case of my 911, even though I don't drive it every day - but in a pinch, I could).

EDIT:

I admit I sort of bent my own logic a bit by buying my M.B. a couple years ago, but even then, I bought used, I paid less for it than a new Honda Civic or Toyota Camry POS, it has a warranty (peace of mind for now) and it's a straight purchase - NOT a lease. I will keep that car indefinitely as my daily driver. Yes, I make payments on it for now but I consider that acceptable in the grand scheme of things (I get a title at the end and will still have a nice vehicle with some value and many miles/years left on it). It has been (and I've every reason to believe it will be) as reliable as a tank. Same logic though. Even if something happens and it "goes down" on me for a week, I drive the 944. Or the 911. Or the motorcycle. I've got enough failsafes where I'll never be in trouble.

Sounds like your car isn't ringing your bell anymore...possibly if you're asking this question you're looking for the answer to get another or trade up/different.

With my cars I never ask myself this question, if I look through and add up receipts I get queazy thinking about what I should have done with the last $80k I just dumped on the car - but in the end its all emotional.

When she stops giving you that satisfaction, then possibly its time to move to a different car/model of the family.

Good luck, and I wish you happiness in your automotive endevors...you're asking a brave question.

Maybe this will help you feel better...


There's a guy in Denver (Craigslist) trying to sell his '76 911 w/ rebuilt 2.7.

Cabrio conversion w/ 993 body parts, wheels, lights,etc. Chose to paint it taxicab yellow.

Trying to sell it for $20k.

Says he has OVER $60k into the car

IT AINT OVER..................UNTIL WE ******* SAY ITS OVER!

"and it will NEVER BE OVER!" hahahahahahahaha

you can divorce a wife.............you cant ever divorce a porsche............you can only sell it when WE SAY YOU CAN! and you cant sell it now!


we control the horizontal...........we control the vertical.............we control YOUR MIND! FOREVER!

Spend till it hurts...

I've never looked at money spent on my 911 as "sinking" money into it. That phrase seems to denote good money being spent on a losing cause. However, life for the middle class is a matter of give and take priorities. I would never spend money on the Porsche at the expense of my family. I always vowed to buy myself a new Ducati after my youngest was finished with college, but when I thought about it, I really didn't need a third motorcycle.....and that was five years ago. I do clear Porsche expenditures with my wife, but she's always been understanding.....she had a Z-28 when I met her 30 years ago, still has a sweet-tooth for speed, and really doesn't think that gas prices should interfere with her eccentricities. As John pointed out above, if you want to be rational, then buy yourself that new Toyota you've been contemplating. If you enjoy the car, just continue to enjoy it......it probably wasn't the most rational purchase in the first place. The crisis doesn't come at mid-life. The crisis comes when you're too old or have lost your good health and wonder, "Why didn't I do that?"

Steve

That is going to be a tough sell.

There is a very funny phenomena with used cars, it is where some how people feel cheated if they do not recover most of their money when they sell:eek:
Now people will buy new cars all day long and never expect to recover more than a fraction of what they spent and that does not seem to be an issue:rolleyes:
It cost money to drive and own a car.
Some times the market, luck and a little for sight will allow you the good fortune to own and DRIVE a car and some how come out ahead.
Most of the time I feel good if I can drive a fun car for penny's a mile in upkeep and asset loss :)
Do not worry in the big picture you are doing fine.

Are you a DIY? If not I suggest you give it a try, these cars are suprisingly easy to work on and I get a huge amount of satisfaction from working on them. I look forward to spending the money on new parts so I can install them...As pointed out above its not about the money its about the experience...spend at a comfortable level or it will be an open wound. If you are buying parts and paying for install that would sour the experience for me some. Unless it was internal motor work.

You simply can't take the money with you and life is short. I hear this all the time. Porsche is a money pit and not worth spending the money on. Not True!!! It's funny the people that I hear make these comments have never had the pleasure of driving the best sports car ever made.

Keep the car up and running and just simply enjoy the hell out of it. Show me a car that runs and looks as good as a Porsche with 200K?

John

i live for my ups/ fed-ex/ postal shipments. i sit lost and forlorn with nothing to do...........i then drink mucho cervezas and lament about no parts to hang on and what to do with my time.

i dream about mongo scarey 3.4 motors and g-50s with taller 1st and 2nd gears and mongo 1st-2nd synchros, with all the zoomy upgrades..................

i also buy my beer on sale, i dont buy anything at grocery store unless its on sale, and i pay an insane amount every ******* month to drop my visa card from its suspended animation in space!

it aint over for me until the ass end(mtr/tranny) are done and i add a cage and the fuel cell to make it panamericana carerra legal! hahahahahahahahahahha!

another interesting factoid about these cars..........

what other car can you take out early sunday morning for a battery charge putt putt/check the oil drive, that has a GT3 CUP CAR wave at you, a pick em up truck full of hillbillys stand on the throttle and melt their tires off wanting to race you off a light(i didnt appease them), a NSX kamikaze mobile come up and rev his mtr and then get his lunch handed to him by me all in a span of a 1/2 hour???????

i'd have to say $$$$=FUN equation is truly proportional!

There is no substitute, resistance is futile.

Seriously, like the other have posted, just drive it more or if you are not happy, sell it.

My co-worker just lost $8,000 in her 401k this year, that's right, 8 grand with zero return, nada.

I was just thinking to myself how many parts I could buy with 8 grand or another aircooled VW.

It never really stops as long as the car gives you the enjoyment when driving....if you do not get that anymore then it is probably time to move on!!!!

The only thing that stopped me from sinking money into my 951 was that it exploded into flames. I guess in some respects that was a good thing.

Note: I'm not advocating any "assisted" fire situations here. :)

So are you going to stop gassing it up too?

Sell the 911.....to me........cheap......then buy yourself a mid 80's Nissan 300zx.

I have 500km on my Z. Everything is original except the timing belt.
Everything works, even the air. It is a T-top car and a lot of fun. VERY RELIABLE!! All I do is put gas in it and change the oil. Never left me stranded. I wish I could say that about my 911. Left me stranded last week. Lots of swear words. Just about put it away and got out the Z. Running great now after a couple hundreds dollars in parts. Have not spent a dime on the Nissan in many years. Not sure what it is, but that 911 keeps me coming back.

dave...

Meka,

If you purchased your car over 4 years ago and have only put $5K into it over that period of time your cost to drive the car is about $100.00 a month. Your 84 is probably worth what you paid for it, so there has been no depreciation. What could you drive for $100.00 a month that would give you as much pleasure? If you purchased a new vehicle of almost any type you would be looking at thousands of dollars of depreciation every year.

Take good care of your 911 and enjoy the rewards.

It's a very easy question - You stop sinking the money when you decide you no longer want a cool old Porsche 911!! I have sunk more money in mine than what I paid for it. Yes, sometime I think of stopping the bleeding BUT then I go for a ride and all is forgotten.

The answer is very simple; the second you go from grinning like a kid in a candy store whenever you turn the ignition key to thinking of money spent on it as "sinking money into it".

/Peter

Any answer to this question on my own : Everyone live his 911 differently , and this way is the good : the way YOU do.

:D

It sounds to me like you need to unload it. I sense you're not happy spending more and more money on what you think of as just a Porsche. (I'm not trying to be rude, believe me, it's just that you pointed out that it's simply a standard car, nothing special, which is probably quite true.) The thing is high-mileage enough that you need to begin thinking of rebuilding/restoring, which doesn't seem like it has much appeal to you. Either that or drive it into the ground.

I speak as someone who bought my car for $10,500, put $60,000 into it to rebuild it, probably have since then spent another $5,000, and just last Friday spent another $100 on a stainless-steel alternator-housing strap. What's the car worth? If I found the perfect buyer, $25,000 max.

I'd say ask yourself honestly what it's worth today, and if you sold it what could it be replaced with for the same money. Someone said $12K, could you get another 911 for $12K? No, you'd only get a basketcase for $12K.

I think enough is enough when nicer alternative 911s can be had for substantially less than keeping yours. (remember nicer alternative cars need work too)

Well, certainly we don't have to assume a like-for-like (in terms of money) move. Maybe it's time to take the $12,000 and use it as a down payment on a two-year-old Boxster, say.

This is an excellent question I ask myself all the time. I am a short time old Porsche addict. Since I do most of the work on my car and I enjoy it, I call it a hobby. I used to spend tons of money I'll never get back playing golf. Now I spend money I'll never get back on the car. When it's not fun anymore, I'll move onto the next form of entertainment.

are you kidding me? grow up and stop the whining. spend the money that the porsche deserves and drive the sheit out of it. for the porsche there is never enough money. and for you there is never enough porsche. that is the ONLY answer to this question!

I've had my Carerra for almost 2 years now...an interesting travel. I can't believe I bought the damned car without PPI (...if I knew THEN what I know now..) Nothing major has raised it's head yet (other than a cross-threaded #1 plug,..STILL not too major) I'm now in the phase of occasionally worrying about something expensive happening. It can be a troublesome trait, for all the wrong reasons, as well as the right reasons. My P.O. had every bit of service docs for over 8 years of ownership...I was looking through these after my purchase and came upon the invoice for the engine rebuild (top and bottom),..granted: the P.O. had other work on this invoice, aside from the rebuild costs (such as windshield, leather work, tires, alignment/balance),...I looked at the total of around $18K on this invoice and almost had a freaking heart attack (literally). We had discussed the rebuild previously and I felt good knowing this had been ALREADY done on the engine,...I just wasn't ready for the price.....

Since,....I, too, quickly forget any/everything once I fire her up and drive,..it truly is a high, especially ONCE you learn her (just stock, at that). STILL,..I watch her like a hawk,..constantly attending Pelican University,..soaking up the data,..particularly when the VERY knowlegeable speak,....it's an experience, for sure. I like to call it a relation..a bit of a gamble....

However,..everything is relative.....and to each his own. I can understand someone, who's not very knowleagable on these cars nor is a "tinkerer", becoming troubled and (even) frightful of worstcase conditions on the 20+ year old cars. The experienced guys speak quite "matter-of-factly", as they've much knowleadge and a passion for these babies,...but someone without their level of expertise could (possibly) see it as something else,...something bad. You HAVE to be able to do some of your own work....and, on that note, God bless these forum members who share the wealth.

Bottom line: you gotta' pay to play (in this world)....and that's coming from ONLY a 2 year owner,..catch me on the day my engine blows and you may get another answer....I may not wanna' play? You gotta' WANT to do it,..with every drive, I strengthen my "WANT" with this damned addictive sports car....it is truly a drug.

...and I'm diggin' her high.

Best of luck in sorting it out.....

It all boils down to this: ADRENALINE

Paid 14K for what I thought was a great 911SC. Over a period of 4 years have dropped another 12K into her "sorting" her out.
Sometimes I wonder if I have gone to far?
This queston gets answered when I open the garage door and take a look after a rough day at work, never fails to put a smile on my face.
When the smile stops happening, then Ive gone to far and it will be time to sell.
As my wife says, if it makes you happy and puts a smile on your face after a long day at work,it must be worth the expense.

I got sick of sinking my money into buying toilet paper that just got flushed down the toilet, so I stopped wiping my a$$. I started to smell real funky, but with the rising cost of water, I refused to take a shower so I jumped in a pond to wash off.

Since I am all about the solving the problem at its source, I stopped eating... besides, the cost of food was going up anyways.

I've now lost 50 pounds for free which has helped me go faster in my 911.

I love responses from guys like you. The whole "stop whining" and "grow up" aspect of your post..... very informative. Right on myfast911! Id love to know whats in your fleet!
Seems everyone else had valid helpful input. Even though some I didn't like. And didn't want to hear, but expected. I simply wanted some feed back from 911 owners with infinitely more knowledge and wisdom than I have when it come to my Carrera. I have no intentions of unloading it. I would like to pass it on to my daughter when she's a bit older. This car is like a loving pet to her. And in the mean time time purchase another 911 and sink a ton of money into it. I have put countless hours of my own labor into this car. It is much like part of the family. I have no problem sinking money into it. But if I had numerous long time 911 owners with extensive experience (like most that responded to my query) tell me I'm nuts. Or that if I was willing to sink a ton of cash into a 911 I may be better off with another year, model ex. Or if I was told with that many miles metal fatigue or something I hadn't considered was an issue. It may be something I would like to be aware of.
Thanks all for your responses. I knew it would be a touchy subject.
Anyone else feel I need to stop whining and grow up? It certainly was not my intension to make my Carrera out as a swarmy money pit.

I'll stop when there's no cash left to spend.

Meka, what's the alternative? It's that simple.

BTW, I have a 235K Carrera. So, you're not alone on the high mileage. Do I worry about the car in a parking lot or running thru the twisties behind some cat throwing up rocks? You see, that's the advantage of having a completely street legal car that you don't worry yourself to death about.

I'd quit spending money and start to get your money's worth out of the car. When it's time to sell, part it out. You'll likely make more money.

Elliot Spitzer spent $5,000 AN HOUR on an expensive hooker and look what it did for him. Our Porsche's are cheap! If you are married what would you rather explain..."Honey, I spend $5,000 an hour on a call girl that I fly to DC for fun." or... "Honey, What do you think of these new Recaro's, only $1,500 each!"

thank you all for the laughs...........my wife is giggling in the backgroud.........

I've put 2 1/2 times what I paid for my 911 back into it in under a year time frame.

and yeah, I've stopped wiping and showering too..........priorities you know.

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the miles bother you, just get a new speedometer.