keep at it... you'll get it.

Aha...well I got to work on the car a little this morning and this is what I found/did. First I let the car start and warm up on its own (which means I didn't give it any gas, I let it get to idle on its own, I think that is the correct way to do it). I made a video of the car idling with the fan belt removed. With the belt removed I do not hear the noise. Which is good right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buPOeQrXeGc

I tried to see if there was any play in the alternator shaft, but I didn't find any. What I did find was that the lower pulley wiggles back and forth a little bit from side to side. When I was putting the belt back on I put it around the lower pulley first, and when I did it moved a little. So I pulled the belt back off and sure enough it moves left and right just slightly. I could not get it to move forward or backward. But it did move and someone correct me but I don't think it is supposed to. And I need a new belt, mine has a few cracks in it.

I also tried to take a video of the timing. And the video is ok, you can see the timing light and you can see my white mark of TDC on the lower pulley towards the end, but when I was filming the timing light was flashing steady at the same point every time. In the video the timing light flashes kind of erratic, and is not as steady as when you are looking at it. You'll see it in the video. For both videos the idle was steady at 1000 RPM. If the exhaust sounds loud, that's because it is. And you can also hear the rattle back again as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCoR-97GUwg


Now what? How do I get rid of the rattle? And would it be ok to drive?

The lower pulley should be tight, you will need to correct that. Best way is to support the engine, remove the rear engine cross bar and the front carrier.

Wow, that sounds a lot better w/o the fan. Sure looks funny though. The timing light should be steady. Did I see that you know the dizzy is good? My car had to have a new one, same as yours a 3.2.

I think the car should not be run until you fix those issues. The lower pulley should be tight and square to the upper pulley. Why is the cone washer off center?

I think you should check your fan housing for fresh scars and divots. I think your fan is hitting it because your alternator is not square either. Either the fan housing is warped due to excessive cracking, or your fan belt is really really tight.

You should try to find a Porsche fan belt. I know, there is none in the USA and they take about 2 months to arrive, but you should try to find one anyway. They fit the best. Next choice would be a Continental Rubber Co. belt, or Conti belt. Forget about Gates, Opti, or the others. They will make your fan bang back and forth because of poor fit. Also, the fan belt should deflect about I dunno, 1/4 to 1/3 inch or so. You will need more deflection than spec if your fan housing is cracked, which make a good fan belt fit even more important.

So do I just need to tighten the lower pulley?

The timing light is steady when you view it with the naked eye. But when I filmed it for whatever reason it was jumpy on the camera. So looking at it, it was steady the whole time, flashing at the same point each time. I don't know why it didn't film that way.

The pulley washer is probably off center because I put it back on and made the video after removing the belt for the first video. I will correct that. And you are right the belt might be too tight. Along those lines, where do I go to get a good belt? Like the ones suggested.

And I have not seen any cracks or chips in the fan or fan housing. With the belt removed the fan spins freely and smoothly.

check to see if the b&b is hitting the back right pary of your car.sounds like the the pipe on the right side is taping against the frame.while running ,take a rag and grab your muffler and move it.if you can stop the noise, then it is hitting some where. hope this helps. russell. by the way, my car did this when i changed exhaust systems.drove me nuts till i found it.

Hey Pookie,

Still trying to help you, so hang in there.

First you say the timing light works. That's good. But you don't say what your timing is at 1K rpm. The issue is that you need to know when the engine is firing through the rpm range, not just at idle. Since none of us can even see the timing mark, there is no point to guessing what your dme is doing in terms of ignition advance and such. The other obvious thing is to pull the distributor and check the "advance" mechanism for smooth operation. You also mentioned that the reference sensors were messed up. If they were not installed properly, your car will not run right.

Next, if the fan is hitting the housing, it won't make a little crack. I'm glad that it sounds like your fan housing is ok. If the fan hits the housing, then the fan willl gouge out a long and deep scratch like a plow pulling a furrow in a garden. The issue is not whether the fan spins freely with the belt removed. Does it hit with the belt installed? I'd suggest trying Pelican for a conti belt. It is possible that you don't even have the correct belt. If you have a 911SC belt for example, then it will be too tight no matter what because the SC belts are shorter than 3.2 belts. I can't recommend other sources than Pelican on the board.

Next, you need to check that you have 6 washers under the cone washer. If not, that contributes to the fan wobbling around. You need 6 of them.

I don't know what's going on with your crankshaft pulley. I hope you can tighten the nut, but you don't know until you stick a socket on there and try it. I wouldn't start up my 911 engine knowing that the lower pulley is wobbly. Check the spec book for torque specs first, and tighten to that spec with clean threads.

It just sounds like your engine needs some light work, perfectly normal for an engine transplant project.

So the crankshaft pulley is loose? That does not happen often. Do not run the engine any more. It should not just be tightened, you now need to inspect the pulley and the crank snout. The pulley has a pin that locates the pulley on the crank (which as a dowel pin hole), so it can properly register Z1/TDC. If the pulley came loose, there is the risk that it ovaled out this dowel pin hole in the crank. Both crank and pulley should be carefully examined.

Hope you didn't run the motor too long w/o a fan belt.

rusnak--- I appreciate everyones help I hope I didn't come off unappreciative before.

But to answer some questions.

That's the thing about my timing. I set the car at TDC and made a little white mark on the lower pulley when it met up with the notch. When I put the timing light on, it flashes way before the white mark ever makes it there. 30 seconds into the timing video you can see my white mark on the left hand side of the pulley near the belt. (I'll try to make a better video later) So the light is going off way ahead of where my TDC mark is. Why would it be off that much?

The reference sensor and speed sensor were messed up, but I replaced them. I had to remove my bracket to get my ref. sensor out. After I got it out I used the old speed sensor with an 8mm washer taped to it to put the bracket in the correct location. I then removed the old speed sensor and put a new reference sensor and speed sensor in with the bracket already installed (and the motor still in the car, so that was fun...)

When I took the fan belt off it had 6 shims all in front of the cone washer. I put them all back on in the same place I took them off from. There are no scratches, gauges, chips, or anything else on the fan blades or the housing.

I've not tried to tighten the crankshaft pulley yet, and I haven't checked that the advance is working on the dist. I'm headed to look that up now.

myfast911- I don't think my exhaust is hitting anything, but I will surely check. But I can't hear the noise with the fan belt removed so I think it something related to that.

Thanks again guys

dtw-I ran it for the 15 second video and I ran it for about 10 before that to make sure I could take the video. So maybe 25 secs. without the belt.

My in-laws are coming into town tonight so it won't be until late this evening or tomorrow untill I get a chance to check the pulley and check for the pin.

Is the dizzy indexed correctly?

yeah, I agree that something is amiss with the timing, but if it was that far off, the car would not run at all.

Did you attach the timing sensor to the #1 cylinder? And are you aiming for the second of the two marks that are close together? I think what Milt is getting at is that when you go to install the distributor, the worm gear makes the rotor sort of jump, so you have to anticipate that and install it one tooth "upstream" so that when you push the distributor into the case, the 1/2 inch or area of the rotor contact lines up with the little raised mark on the distributor body. The crankcase mark is way more precise than the distributor mark.

Pook, I didn't think you were unappreciative, I was just saying hang in there, as in don't get bummed out.

Odd how much better it sounds without the alt belt. Leads me to suspect the timing can't be too far off. I wonder if the lower pulley is hitting something? Maybe there is a spare nut or rock or whatnot trapped in the metal shroud surrounding the pulley, and the belt occasionally catches it and knocks it about? I know I've dropped a nut in there - i was fun to fish out.

Still, It would be good to double check that the distributor rotor is pointed at one of the terminals and not inbetween when the timing mark is at TDC.

I put the rotor on the notch for TDC and took a pic of the lower pulley position. I also placed an additional white dot on the second notch of the lower pulley. As you can see when the rotor is on the notch the lower pulley's first mark (or right hand side mark) is lined up with the notch. I then put the lower pulley's second mark (or left hand side mark) in position and took a picture of where the dist rotor is pointing. As you can see the dist rotor is past the TDC mark when I align the lower pulley with the second notch. I thought the second notch was the one for TDC, why would it be off.

I tried to tighten the lower pulley nut, and I couldn't get that thing to budge at all. I then removed the fan belt and tried to get the lower pulley to move again with no luck. So now it doesn't move, but before it did. When it moved last time, I had just taken the belt off and the car was warm. This time the car is stone cold, not sure if that helps but figured I would toss it in.

I supported the engine and had to remove the engine mount brace and all the protective shields to get to the lower pulley. I did not find any nuts, bolts, rocks, foriegn objects or gremlins.

So what do I need to check now? Does this mean the dist is off a tooth?

Pic of the lower pulley with the rotor pointed at the notch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1212016008.jpg

Pic of the notch with the lower pulley at the second notch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1212016081.jpg

it looked ok until I realized that your pic is turned 90 clockwise to the way I normally look at the distributor.

Yep, you are right, way off.

You have to reinstall the distributor aligned w second mark, as you stated. The first one I believe is 5 deg btdc.

Does having the dist off a tooth make sense as a diagnosis for the timing issue I was seeing?

pook, you won't know until you fix it. I initially thought you had two distinct sounds, and I still think so. How can you stand to not pull that freakin thing out and not reinstall correctly?

I would have run, not walked to the tool chest if it were my car.

I'm with rusnak on this one. Pull the dist out and re-install in the correct position. Buckle it back together and start it up. See what happens then. It is just gonna be a matter of elimination from this point. Start with what you are sure isn't correct and repair. It will come together:D

Having any better luck Ryan?