86 Carrera... improving shifting

[notfarnow]

In January, I helped my dad & his wife find a nice 86 Carrera Cab with 67k miles. The car had a clean PPI, barring a few niggly issues, and it was shipped from Virginia to Montreal. Dad lives ~600 miles away, and I've been up twice to play with & work on the car.

So far, I've installed a kill switch, tested & fixed (JB weld!) the electric cab top & fixed the air conditioning.

I was up there this past weekend for my brother's wedding, and drove the car a lot.

Great car, runs beautifully but... it shifts horribly.

I know & understand that the 915 is not going to shift like their Accord, or even my old Jetta. However, I've driven 35yr old VW busses with more precise shifters.

In fact, it is so bad that dad's wife isn't driving the car. This is not acceptable, as the car is really hers.

It is overall very vague, and in the first three gears it very, very stiff about 50% of the time. Especially 1->2, 2->3 & 3->2. Sometimes is just drops into gear no problem. Other times it feels as though it is binding. It never, ever grinds unless you get carried away from 2->1.

Now, I've been trolling & searching, trying to digest as many threads as possible. Here are my initial thoughts, and I'd like to know if they stand to reason:

-It is not grinding except (understandably) when you ham-fist into 1st, so I really don't think the tranny itself should be a suspect at this point. (FWIW, it has Swepco)

-Because the binding/stiffness comes & goes, depending on speed, direction and alignment of the stars & moon, I think the engine/transmission mounts are the first likely suspect

-Next in line are the shift coupler & shifter bushings.

Now, keeping in mind that I live 600 miles away from the car, my opportunities to work on it only come every few months.

Here's what I'm thinking:
-Dad & his wife just so happen to be visiting this coming weekend, so I was thinking of ordering engine & tranny mounts and putting them in while they are here. If I get dad to hit them with PB Blaster, is it reasonable to think I can change them all out in 4-5 hours?

-If the problems persist, later in the I'll summer change the shifter bushings & maybe go with the bronze coupler bushings.

Am approaching this correctly? I missing anything?

Wildcard:
Someone in another thread mentioned that he "flipped" his engine & transmission mounts and it really improved the shifting. Anyone else ever done this? Sounds like a used car salesman trick... I can't help but think that if the rubber is beat, it will eventually settle back down & the problems will come back.

[notfarnow]

whoopsie,

mods please move this thread to 911 technical before it gets corrupted with political cooties and pictures of bunnies

[Neilk]

Check the bushings under the shifter tower first. Takes 10 minutes and doesn't require any special tools. Mine had completely disintegrated leading to a really vague feeling. Once I changed them, it felt like a new transmission.

[Porsche_monkey]

I would do as Neilk suggested and work your way back.

1. Bushings under the shifter
2. Linkage, brass, not urethane
3. Re-adjust shift linkage
4. Tranny mounts and engine mounts
5. Inside the tranny

I doubt you will get to 4. , let alone 5. before the problem is fixde.

And yes a couple of hours to do the four mounts is reasonable.

[Christien]

Can you get parts ordered quickly enough to get here by the weekend? Here's a thought - the shifter bushings are REALLY easy to change - something your dad could do himself, with no mechanical knowledge and you only a phone call away to help. Maybe have him replace the shifter bushings himself (should be available locally somewhere in Montreal) and see if that makes a difference. Not likely, though. The shift coupler is the next spot and, while it's more difficult, again doesn't really require any mechanical prowess. It does however require a desk-mounted vice, or at least that makes the process a billion times easier. But still something he could do first before the weekend. Then if those don't work, move on to the mounts.

I changed the shifter and coupler bushings in my 915, and replaced the tranny oil (with Swepco) with absolutely no difference in shifting. Although my shifting wasn't difficult - it was just kind of sloppy. I still don't like the way the car shifts, but have just got used to it.

How old is the current transmission fluid?

Geez, I come looking for time wasting in OT, and I find tech stuff! Must be Dubya's fault. What a jackass. Down with republicans.

[djmcmath]

PBH is spot-on, imho. I drive a 1970 VW Beetle that initially shifted very poorly. After replacing the coupler bushings, shifting improved substantially. I only mention this because the linkage is essentially identical to the one in my '86 911, which I fixed the same way.

But since this is OT, I think that your shifting problem is the fault of Global Warming, and because Bush hates Porsches.

[Porsche_monkey]

Or there could be 10,000 honey bees in the tranny.

I would not be concerned about the 'age' of the tranny oil on your car. But you might drain it to see how much metal has collected on the magnet.

[notfarnow]

The tranny oil has under 5k on it.

The only thing had me leaning toward the engine/tranny mounts first was the fact that the stiffness/binding seemed to constantly change as I drove. I thought the engine/transmission could be moving enough to cause binding or misalignment.

I'll get dad to check around local shops for the shift bushings; seems like a good starting point. I won't have time to get them from Pelican by the weekend. Too bad... I have a PP order on the way already.

I had the center console out last weekend when I was friggin' & fartin' with the air conditioner controls. I wish I had pulled the shift tower then. Does the center console have to come out again? I can't remember offhand if I can just take off the shift boot.

The poor shifting is definitely caused by global warming:If George Bush didn't hate the planet, he would have Fixed The World by now, and we wouldn't have global warming, my dad wouldn't have needed the air conditioning fixed, and I would have already fixed the shifting issues.

I bet everyone in Cuba has sweet shifting 911s, and great teeth

[Christien]

I can't help you as to whether or not the console has to come out - my 72 doesn't have one. I did have to lift the carpet and unbolt the plate that holds the shift lever to the tunnel, so I'm betting yes, but not sure.

If it helps, when I was last at the track I was grinding a lot more than usual. My instructor suggestion trying to wait until the car was fully out of the turn and facing straight before shifting, and that did indeed make a big difference. Somehow the body roll and twisting of the car made things in the tranny not align properly. Just something I thought of when you mentioned engine and tranny mounts.

[Neilk]

Jake,

I am not sure if the shifter tower was changed between '73 and '86, but you might be able to view the bushings through an "inspection hole" in the side of tower. Just slide the boot off the tower and see if it is there. Otherwise, unscrewing the tower is just 3 bolts if you don't need to remove the console.

[Scott R]

My shifting was terrible, bushings replaced, transmission rebuilt, still terrible. So I was sitting in the car looking at the shift coupler while I moved the shifter. It moved, but then never returned when I moved the shifter back. Turns out the welds on the end of the shift rod were gone.

For some reason Porsche decide that a press in snub piece at the end was better than a billet rod. Anyway, pulled the rod and welded it up, two year problem solved.

[Rich76_911s]

You will have to remove the center concole again.

[notfarnow]

So with the shift coupler exposed, I should be able to isolate the "looseness", correct?

Holding the coupler, I can see how much "wiggle" there is at the shifter; holding the shifter, I can see how much wiggle there is at the coupler. Am I right?

It's hard with the car ~600 miles away, I have to figure my process of ilimination without the car in front of me.

Originally posted by Rich76_911s
You will have to remove the center concole again.

$#%&. I'll never vote Republican again.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Scott R
My shifting was terrible, bushings replaced, transmission rebuilt, still terrible. So I was sitting in the car looking at the shift coupler while I moved the shifter. It moved, but then never returned when I moved the shifter back. Turns out the welds on the end of the shift rod were gone.

For some reason Porsche decide that a press in snub piece at the end was better than a billet rod. Anyway, pulled the rod and welded it up, two year problem solved.

Scott, The piece is epoxied in. A common fix is welding it up...as you've done. Did mine as well.

[Scott R]

Originally posted by notfarnow
So with the shift coupler exposed, I should be able to isolate the "looseness", correct?

Holding the coupler, I can see how much "wiggle" there is at the shifter; holding the shifter, I can see how much wiggle there is at the coupler. Am I right?

It's hard whith the car ~600 miles away, I have to figure my process of ilimination without the car in front of me.

$#%&. I'll never vote Republican again.

Yes, for some dumb reason I never put the two together. But you can see both bad bushings, and a cracked shift rod doing this.

[Scott R]

Originally posted by RickM
Scott, The piece is epoxied in. A common fix is welding it up...as you've done. Did mine as well.

Oh, well that makes more sense, but still a dumb design.

[450knotOffice]

Subscribing because I have the same vague issues as you. I have new bushings everywhere, but still, I get the same symptoms as you. Sometimes it shifts beautifully, sometimes I have to fish around for a gear over and over until I find the slot (2 and 4 mostly). It never, ever, grinds. It's just vague.

Scott R, can you expand on your situation and fix a bit? Are you talking about the long shift rod in the tunnel from the shifter to the coupler or from the coupler back directly to the transmission? I hope it doesn't sound like a stupid question to you. I'm thinking you might be on to something with my car.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
Scott R, can you expand on your situation and fix a bit? Are you talking about the long shift rod in the tunnel from the shifter to the coupler or from the coupler back directly to the transmission? I hope it doesn't sound like a stupid question to you. I'm thinking you might be on to something with my car.

Scott's thread was part of my research:
Shift linkage again

Originally posted by Scott R
Well the shifter finally gave up, it turned out to be the shift rod in the tunnel. The part at the end where it reduces down to fit in the cup socket was lose, I could rotate it 360 deg. It looks from other posts that this is common, and judging by the factory welds I'm not surprised that it gave out.

Anyway, I jacked the transmission up and slid the rod out, then I seam welded it instead of the rosette welds that the factory used. Shifts like my wifes A4 now, thank god for the archives

[450knotOffice]

Thanks for pulling that up Jake!

[notfarnow]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the weld/joint between 24 & 25:



So Scott, you have to jack up the transmission and pull the rod out from underneath? Does it come out pretty easily, or does it take "special" language?

I also wonder if one couldn't clean it thoroughly, then JB weld it?