Possible Problem at Jacking Point....Need Advice Quickly
 

1985 Targa......I will be getting new tires in a few days and went to look at where the "welded in pads" are under the car for the 4 point tire shop lift.

So I get under the car and discover 2 things.

1. There are NO welded on pads or pads of any sort in the positions shown on the diagram someone posted with the "X"s.

2. This is where a big issue as I see it has happened. At some point in the cars life, someone jacked the car up probably using a floor jack without the adapter and crushed the tube running just inside the jack point in the in front of the rear wheel on the passenger side.

I tried to trace the tube, but the car is so low, I can't get my head under it to see where it goes.

There are 3 tubes running the length of the car on the passenger side. I would guess they are oil lines or A/C lines, but I really need to know what the crushed one is, and how serious it is.

The car runs fine, which would lead me to believe it is an A/C line, but if it an oil line it needs to be addressed.

Like I said, this is the tube closest to the outside of the car, right next to the plug for the jack point.

I also need to figure out how the shop is going to put this car on a lift if there are no pads. I could always tell them to use a floor jack with a board for the front and jack the engine seam in the rear, but would rather be able to get a good view under the car.

1- You can jack on the seams in those areas. They have to be very careful around all the lines (as you discovered) but I regularly put mine up using the welded seams to lift the car.

2- the crushed lines are your oil lines that run from the thermostat (in the front of the rt rear wheel well) up to the oil cooler behind the rt front headlight. In a lot of normal driving, it's nat a showstopper, but it will restrict how much oil gets to the cooler. So on hot summer days with the a/c on, the oil temps will run hotter than normal. Not a critical need, but one that should be addressed for the long-termp health of the engine. Some on here have had success fixing the collapsed area, but in my mind the safest thing to do is replace the lines, and that's not a cheap pair of parts.

So mount the new tires and enjoy the car.

post pic of crushed line

prob. oil line if it is twinned

no early cars had pads; use wood blocks and jack away

or use the side square receptacles with jack adapter

or use motor seam, etc. - many threads on how to jack up

be sure to use jack stands - not safe to get under a car on a jack

No jack pads until '86, sorry.

If the line is visibly deformed, it is an oil cooler line. It should be repaired or replaced soon.

Tip: Take your wheels off and deliver them to the tire shop. Don't let them near the car where they can overtorque your lugs or crush more lines.

Note that it is not crushed lines, but line.

There are 3 lines, not 2 and the crushed one is closest to the outside of the car.

I will try and get a pic posted.

Depends on how badly that line is crushed. It's not unusual for the lower oil line to be damaged and so long as it is not pinched closed it may not restrict oil flow.

Outermost is an oil line. You can post a pic and get some comments on how severe it is, but if it is just 'dinged', it will have only a light to moderate impact on flow. If it is severely crushed, flow to/from cooler is severely impeded and it should be fixed. You want your oil pump to have a long easy life and for your oil to stay nice and cool....

I have found, with a big Billy Boat front oill cooler, that it is surprising how small an obstruction will seriously restrict oil flow. Don't think that because "it's just a little dent" the oil will readily push its way past it. It's a bit counterintuitive, when you look at it from outside. Maybe somebody who understands fluid dynamics can explain it...

Definitely the oil cooler line.

It is severely pinched and appears to be almost pinched shut. I guess some oil is getting by as I ran the car for several hours the other day with an air temp of around 75-80 and it had 4 bars at speed.

I now need to know which line is this one, the return or the feed, so a new one can be found. (Does our host have them?) I circled the line at the relief valve. IT is the one closest to the wheelwell.

This looks like a royal PIA to do as it is 1 long line.

Does the engine and tank oil need to be drained before the repair is started?

I was going to attempt to squeeze it with a channel lock to get it open some, but it looks as though it may crack because it is pinched so much. I have no idea how long it has been like this, since I just got the car.


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I'll second this advice. Even if the guys at the tire shop have the best of intentions, this is not a car they see every day and they have no clue how much damage they can inflict.

Jerry M
'78 SC

Even though I know these guys well, you are correct about not seeing this kind of car. I will either take the wheels in or show them how to set up the floor jack and do front set, then rear set.

If you do replace the line, be very careful with the threads on the thermostat. When I replaced the line from the thermostat to the tank, I cut the outer bolt with a cutoff tool and then used an air chisel to literally pry the nut off the threads. A little heat from a torch helped as well.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Holy Crap!!!!!

I just looked on in our hosts parts pages and found that the line is indeed the oil return line from the thermostat to the front mounted cooler. When I clicked on the part and the price came up, I nearly caught a coronary. $400+ :eek:

turbulence - just drop a boulder into a stream and occlude say 1/3 of the width, then watch what happens

worse here as it's an enclosed tube

yet another fluid flow issue!

there are ways to repair; & aftermkt & used lines you can get...

I take wheels in to get mounted. I have had a over torqued nuts. Most of the tire shop guys have never seen a 911.

Ditto, I just picked up my fuchs with new tires mounted on them on my lunch hour. The guys at the local tire shop have never seen any of the 911's I have owned, and they never will unless I drive by the shop and wave. My baby is in the garage up on four jack stands anxiously awaiting my return with the new shoes.:D

On one of my cars, I repaired the line with channel locks. However, I removed the line from the car and heated the damaged area carefully with a torch before applying pressure. The ding popped quite nicely. Heed the warnings here (do a search on themostat threads, stripped thermostat, oil line removal, etc) about stripping the thermostat threads when you remove the line. The proper wrenches are a big help on this job - pretty cheap for the set of 4 from Pelican. With that much blockage, I'd get on this sooner than later. Probably wouldn't drive the car any more until fixed. There are many who will disagree with me on this, but I'm with Steve W - even a small ding can have a significant impact on flow.

Check out www.elephantracing.com to read up on an interesting aftermarket solution for oil lines. They can be purchased here at Pelican also.

What do you guys torque your lugs to?

Steve

Here's a thought I had...................

Is that return line under any type of high pressure? Because if it is not, I was thinking that it would be totally feasible to cut out a small section of the line, get rubber fuel line (or high pressure line), slip it over each end and clamp it down.

Since it is just a return line, I would think that method would be fine, no?

jh, I think that oil line is toast. I know people say they can repair the oil lines and such, but I would probably just replace it. Chances are, your oil line has been crushed elsewhere too.

I had to replace both of my oil lines when I bought my 3.2. I have no idea how I got my oil lines off without damaging my oil thermostat, but it is very common to damage the threads on the aluminum thermostat when removing the steel oil line nut. I think the thought of cutting off the oil line nut is a good one, if a technique can be devised to not damage the aluminum threads. A lot of guys will take a mapp gas torch and heat up the steel nut. There is a "thermostat saver" that is available, but you end up with oil lines that are too long and hang even lower under the car. Oh, and check out the price of a new oil thermostat if you need more "excitement"

lug nut torque: 98 ft lbs.

Since you have had your line off, can you tell me if it is under pressure? Does the engine and tank oil have to be drained prior to removing the line? I am not concerned about the threads as I will heat them first, but will gravity cause all the oil to flow out is what I need to find out.

It isn't worth it to show them then trust them. I have directly told people that the lugs must be hand tightened and torqued, had them agree, then have them walk 10 feet to the car and use an impact wrench to torque it past 100 foot/pounds.

Just take them off and deliver them to the shop.

When the car is not running, and is not hot, no oil is passed to the front cooler so it is not under pressure. You can remove the line without draining the oil tank and engine, but you will still get the oil that is in the cooler and lines coming out.

The line IS under pressure when running, so you cannot just clamp rubber hose to replace the damaged parts. People have soldered copper water pipe fittings to fix the line, and as mentioned there are a number of threads about using air pressure and heat to pop the line back out.

I would snug the lug nuts down, then put the car on the ground and torque to 60 ft.lbs, then a final torque to 90 ft.lbs. Also always tighten the opposite nut, rather than working your way around in a CW or CCW rotation.

If you have aluminum lug nuts you might invest in a 19mm socket with a plastic insert so you won't damage the finish on your lug nuts.

Also while you're purchasing the lug nut socket get a Bentleys Manual from our host. If you're going to do any work on your car it's a must.

Better have someone who's worked this path from thermostat to front cooler tackle it,..or, at least, read every frikin' thread here at Pelican University regarding this procedure to repair. Many have shared some very informative headaches......none of which I would wish on anybody..Many here who can help you, should you feel "froggy".

Just run your hands along the oil line runs to check for OTHER "dents" (or get her on the rack and have a look/see) along the way.

That front cooler may be called on at given' times,..and needs to be there when needed,..I'd not take the chance....ONLY if your constantly checking temps,..and if she gets too hot (for whatever the reason), pull you're butt over and wait for the temps to recover,..THEN you'll go get her fixed 4sure.

Pelican's a life saver....so is my P-wrench.

Best,

Doyle

I was thinking about this some more.

As for how do you jack up the 911, I think we can safely say that it's been covered alread in other threads. Do what works for you, and use good jack stands.

Is the oil line under pressure? No, not when the engine is stopped. Will oil leak out? Yes. Expect a lot of oil to leak out. If you have some of those blue nitrile smurf looking gloves, you can slip a glove on the end and tie it off with a zip tie or some tape.

Put a garbage bag over your right front wheel. This will prevent oil from dousing the wheel and brakes, destroying your brake pads and adding to the clean up time.

Buy some Purple Power or Super Clean. You'll need this to clean up your work area and probably yourself too.

PB Blaster is your friend. If you are a Republican, this is the only time you'll want to be liberal. Really really liberal. If you have a right angle die grinder, maybe you can cut through the nut down to about 1/16th, then loosen the nut with an oil line wrench. This will lessen the clamping force of the nut considerably and may save your thermostat from impending doom.

Question about the oil line removal.................

I see a lot of people who say that the removal from the thermostat was a nightmare due to the steel thread mating aluminum.

When I looked at the thermostat and how little room there is to get at the nut in front of the stat, I thought that it would be easier to remove both lines on the engine side of the thermostat since they are aluminum on aluminum, then put the unit in a vise, do the heat/spray cycles and then turn the nuts to get the hose off.

Doesn't that make more sense?

It's not the model of car, they just do it too often to want to do it right.

Guns are for cowboys.

you can try it, and get back to us. But don't say you weren't warned in advance. My guess is that after the first nut strips out your threads, you'll not want to remove any more oil nuts than necessary, and you'll take a more conservative approach, say remove only the nut that needs removing and leave everything else alone.

I drop the entire system. Drop the return line at the oil tank, and the feed line at the joint under the muffler. That way you don't have to mess with the thermostat fittings in situ at all, you can do any work you want to do on the bench. Works great for me. Or, since your line is trashed anyway, you can try cutting. If you can get a Dremel or angle grinder in there, you can cut the nut down then chisel it off.

That's an even better idea.

And I am going to try and salvage the line by pressurizing and heating. If it doesn't work, I need a new line anyway.

The strangest part about this whole thing is that I have 4 bars at speed (1 or 2 at hot idle), and the temp has not gone over the first mark on the gauge. I would bet this has been crushed for quite some time. The PO never really drove it (500 miles in the last year), so it never made itself known.

yes, drop the thing as a unit

but spray first - in fact spray the threads dozens of times & tap the metal or drive the car & repeat, repeat, repeat

you might try gently before dropping the whole thing

From the looks of it, I guess I will have to drain the oil tank first as 1 line goes directly to it. Correct?

98 ft/lbs..

Edit: Asleep at the wheel, didn't see that there was a page 2...Please proceed as if I were normal!

+1 to removing your own wheels and taking them to the tire shop...

There was a recent thread by someone who cut through the nut with a dremmle cut off wheel. Sounds like a good idea if you are not saving the line.

just a note on tire shops.... as a general rule they inflict huge amounts of damage to your wheels - always take the tires alone in... can clean off the weights yourself before going or they may be "cleaned" off for you with a screwdriver - go to a place that will let you watch the guy running the machine and tell him you don't want one mark on your wheels inside or out. You have to watch what type of machine they have and if it grabs the rim or the inside of the wheel.. in either case the grabbers need to have a bit of padding or you will get your wheel gouged. They should be using a "non-touch" tire machine... if not go somewhere else.