Possible Problem at Jacking Point....Need Advice Quickly

jh225 · 06-25-2008, 07:41 AM

1985 Targa......I will be getting new tires in a few days and went to look at where the "welded in pads" are under the car for the 4 point tire shop lift.

So I get under the car and discover 2 things.

1. There are NO welded on pads or pads of any sort in the positions shown on the diagram someone posted with the "X"s.

2. This is where a big issue as I see it has happened. At some point in the cars life, someone jacked the car up probably using a floor jack without the adapter and crushed the tube running just inside the jack point in the in front of the rear wheel on the passenger side.

I tried to trace the tube, but the car is so low, I can't get my head under it to see where it goes.

There are 3 tubes running the length of the car on the passenger side. I would guess they are oil lines or A/C lines, but I really need to know what the crushed one is, and how serious it is.

The car runs fine, which would lead me to believe it is an A/C line, but if it an oil line it needs to be addressed.

Like I said, this is the tube closest to the outside of the car, right next to the plug for the jack point.

I also need to figure out how the shop is going to put this car on a lift if there are no pads. I could always tell them to use a floor jack with a board for the front and jack the engine seam in the rear, but would rather be able to get a good view under the car.

175K911 · 06-25-2008, 08:02 AM

1- You can jack on the seams in those areas. They have to be very careful around all the lines (as you discovered) but I regularly put mine up using the welded seams to lift the car.

2- the crushed lines are your oil lines that run from the thermostat (in the front of the rt rear wheel well) up to the oil cooler behind the rt front headlight. In a lot of normal driving, it's nat a showstopper, but it will restrict how much oil gets to the cooler. So on hot summer days with the a/c on, the oil temps will run hotter than normal. Not a critical need, but one that should be addressed for the long-termp health of the engine. Some on here have had success fixing the collapsed area, but in my mind the safest thing to do is replace the lines, and that's not a cheap pair of parts.

So mount the new tires and enjoy the car.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

post pic of crushed line

prob. oil line if it is twinned

no early cars had pads; use wood blocks and jack away

or use the side square receptacles with jack adapter

or use motor seam, etc. - many threads on how to jack up

be sure to use jack stands - not safe to get under a car on a jack

dtw · 06-25-2008, 08:06 AM

No jack pads until '86, sorry.

If the line is visibly deformed, it is an oil cooler line. It should be repaired or replaced soon.

Tip: Take your wheels off and deliver them to the tire shop. Don't let them near the car where they can overtorque your lugs or crush more lines.

jh225 · 06-25-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 175K911

2- the crushed lines are your oil lines that run from the thermostat (in the front of the rt rear wheel well) up to the oil cooler behind the rt front headlight.

Note that it is not crushed lines, but line.

There are 3 lines, not 2 and the crushed one is closest to the outside of the car.

I will try and get a pic posted.

4sd911 · 06-25-2008, 08:14 AM

Depends on how badly that line is crushed. It's not unusual for the lower oil line to be damaged and so long as it is not pinched closed it may not restrict oil flow.

dtw · 06-25-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh225

Note that it is not crushed lines, but line.

There are 3 lines, not 2 and the crushed one is closest to the outside of the car.

I will try and get a pic posted.

Outermost is an oil line. You can post a pic and get some comments on how severe it is, but if it is just 'dinged', it will have only a light to moderate impact on flow. If it is severely crushed, flow to/from cooler is severely impeded and it should be fixed. You want your oil pump to have a long easy life and for your oil to stay nice and cool....

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 06-25-2008, 08:40 AM

I have found, with a big Billy Boat front oill cooler, that it is surprising how small an obstruction will seriously restrict oil flow. Don't think that because "it's just a little dent" the oil will readily push its way past it. It's a bit counterintuitive, when you look at it from outside. Maybe somebody who understands fluid dynamics can explain it...

jh225 · 08:46 AM

Definitely the oil cooler line.

It is severely pinched and appears to be almost pinched shut. I guess some oil is getting by as I ran the car for several hours the other day with an air temp of around 75-80 and it had 4 bars at speed.

I now need to know which line is this one, the return or the feed, so a new one can be found. (Does our host have them?) I circled the line at the relief valve. IT is the one closest to the wheelwell.

This looks like a royal PIA to do as it is 1 long line.

Does the engine and tank oil need to be drained before the repair is started?

I was going to attempt to squeeze it with a channel lock to get it open some, but it looks as though it may crack because it is pinched so much. I have no idea how long it has been like this, since I just got the car.

jmohn · jmohn's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

No jack pads until '86, sorry.

Tip: Take your wheels off and deliver them to the tire shop. Don't let them near the car where they can overtorque your lugs or crush more lines.

I'll second this advice. Even if the guys at the tire shop have the best of intentions, this is not a car they see every day and they have no clue how much damage they can inflict.

Jerry M
'78 SC

jh225 · 06-25-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

No jack pads until '86, sorry.

Tip: Take your wheels off and deliver them to the tire shop. Don't let them near the car where they can overtorque your lugs or crush more lines.

Even though I know these guys well, you are correct about not seeing this kind of car. I will either take the wheels in or show them how to set up the floor jack and do front set, then rear set.

Brother · 06-25-2008, 09:09 AM

If you do replace the line, be very careful with the threads on the thermostat. When I replaced the line from the thermostat to the tank, I cut the outer bolt with a cutoff tool and then used an air chisel to literally pry the nut off the threads. A little heat from a torch helped as well.

jh225 · 06-25-2008, 09:17 AM

Holy Crap!!!!!

I just looked on in our hosts parts pages and found that the line is indeed the oil return line from the thermostat to the front mounted cooler. When I clicked on the part and the price came up, I nearly caught a coronary. $400+

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

I have found, with a big Billy Boat front oill cooler, that it is surprising how small an obstruction will seriously restrict oil flow. Don't think that because "it's just a little dent" the oil will readily push its way past it. It's a bit counterintuitive, when you look at it from outside. Maybe somebody who understands fluid dynamics can explain it...

turbulence - just drop a boulder into a stream and occlude say 1/3 of the width, then watch what happens

worse here as it's an enclosed tube

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh225

Holy Crap!!!!!
* * * I nearly caught a coronary. $400+

yet another fluid flow issue!

there are ways to repair; & aftermkt & used lines you can get...

MT930 · 06-25-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

No jack pads until '86, sorry.

If the line is visibly deformed, it is an oil cooler line. It should be repaired or replaced soon.

Tip: Take your wheels off and deliver them to the tire shop. Don't let them near the car where they can overtorque your lugs or crush more lines.

I take wheels in to get mounted. I have had a over torqued nuts. Most of the tire shop guys have never seen a 911.

vanwyk4257 · vanwyk4257's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT930

I take wheels in to get mounted. I have had a over torqued nuts. Most of the tire shop guys have never seen a 911.

Ditto, I just picked up my fuchs with new tires mounted on them on my lunch hour. The guys at the local tire shop have never seen any of the 911's I have owned, and they never will unless I drive by the shop and wave. My baby is in the garage up on four jack stands anxiously awaiting my return with the new shoes.

dtw · 06-25-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh225

Holy Crap!!!!!

I just looked on in our hosts parts pages and found that the line is indeed the oil return line from the thermostat to the front mounted cooler. When I clicked on the part and the price came up, I nearly caught a coronary. $400+

On one of my cars, I repaired the line with channel locks. However, I removed the line from the car and heated the damaged area carefully with a torch before applying pressure. The ding popped quite nicely. Heed the warnings here (do a search on themostat threads, stripped thermostat, oil line removal, etc) about stripping the thermostat threads when you remove the line. The proper wrenches are a big help on this job - pretty cheap for the set of 4 from Pelican. With that much blockage, I'd get on this sooner than later. Probably wouldn't drive the car any more until fixed. There are many who will disagree with me on this, but I'm with Steve W - even a small ding can have a significant impact on flow.

Check out www.elephantracing.com to read up on an interesting aftermarket solution for oil lines. They can be purchased here at Pelican also.

Cdnone1 · 06-25-2008, 10:17 AM

What do you guys torque your lugs to?

Steve

jh225 · 06-25-2008, 10:33 AM

Here's a thought I had...................

Is that return line under any type of high pressure? Because if it is not, I was thinking that it would be totally feasible to cut out a small section of the line, get rubber fuel line (or high pressure line), slip it over each end and clamp it down.

Since it is just a return line, I would think that method would be fine, no?