Is a Welded cage faster than bolt in?

mshriner · 08-21-2008, 11:17 AM

Will a welded in pro built cage show a meaningful drop in lap times vs. something like a safety devices bolt in cage? I have read lots of threads that they are theoretically stiffer, if done really well they can provide more room therefore a better chance to keep your mellon from hitting it and overall are safer?

Anybody have a comparison in lap times. Full bolt in cage vs. full weld in. At more than double the difference in cost and pretty much irreversible (a consideration in any 70-73)? I would like to hear some others experience. Prevailing wisdom can also be right I just would like to know that it is based on fact.

Matt

mede8er · mede8er's Garage

Yes...oftentimes my cage reaches the finish line before I do......

Jack Olsen · 08-21-2008, 01:16 PM

The cage doesn't really care if it's held in place by steel welds or steel bolts, so long as it's firmly attached. And the rigidity of any cage isn't going to make a huge amount of difference if it's only tied in to the floor. It will make some difference, but not lap-time differences. You'll go faster, usually, with no cage at all. (They're heavy.)

The real difference between custom-made and off-the-shelf cages is that you can tie a custom-made cage into your suspension points, which allows the structural rigidity of the cage to really mean something. This means you're cutting some big holes in your chassis, of course, and it's a significantly bigger project than an off-the-shelf cage. But when you can essentially create a stronger and more-rigid structure that goes to both the front and rear suspension points, your flexibile old tub becomes less of a liability to your suspension's ability to function in as precise a fashion as possible.

In terms of safety, it's impossible to say. An off-the-shelf cage can be poorly-designed or well-designed. The same is true of a custom cage. It's the design, not the pricetag or the assembly method, that determines how well it will hold up in a crash.

JohnJL · 08-21-2008, 02:25 PM

A weld-in cage, particularly as Jack describes, will also bump you out of certain racing classes/categories so choose wisely.

tctnd · 08-21-2008, 07:26 PM

If the driver is more confidant in the integrity of a welded cage he'll definitely cut a quicker lap.

rnln · 08-21-2008, 10:43 PM

:d :d

Quote:

Originally Posted by mede8er

yes...oftentimes My Cage Reaches The Finish Line Before I Do......:d

Mahler9th · 08-22-2008, 07:10 AM

Hey Matt, hope that you are well. Did you ask Tony C., Rich W. or Mat L. this question? Anyway, a weld in cage is most appropriate in my opinion given all of the variables. As to effecting performance, that is a more in depth topic. For example, the cage in my car (built by Mat) does not come out to the front shock towers. Would the car be faster if they were tied in? Not measurably. Stiffer? probably yes. Are there cage changes I can make that would effect performance? Yes, but fractions of seconds... and that is in aggregate.

The real reason to got with weld-in is safety and optimization, in my opinion.

mshriner · 08-22-2008, 07:51 AM

Mike,
I am about 10 months into getting a business off the ground. (It's going well though) So all I can do right not is sit around and think about how I am going to prep a car to race.

Tony is definitely the guy. Part of my thinking is that I don't really want to cut up and modify my 73. The values are going up on the same curve as the 356's and at some point you don't race what you can't replace. Theoretically then I would need to find a solid SC and swap the pieces over? Hopefully I can begin to actually do something this winter. Then I need another year of solid track time / time trialing then I can go race.

Let me know if you are going karting any time soon!

Matt

ttw18 · 08-22-2008, 08:33 AM

A stiffer chassis is generally more predictable and consistent lap after lap. Adding to the car's structural rigidity reduces variables associated with chassis flex. Comparing a single lap time of a caged and uncaged car may not impress. For me, it is more important that the car behaves the same way each lap over the course of a race. I have raced cars with no cage, bolt-in, and custom welded cages. There is an improved connection to the road and a confidence inspired feeling that is gained when racing a solid chassis.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

What Jack said - the lighter the cage, the faster. In general, I would think that there are other things that would affect performance to a much greater degree than the weight of a cage (timing, camber, wheel weights, tires, etc.). I think for the basis of answering your question, I'd say they are equal.

-Wayne