Resurrecting 65 911 - Starter Question

[haasman]

After years of garages and storage containers my 65 911 is coming out into the daylight!

Battery was dead, replaced it with an Optima. After many hand turns of the engine now wanting to start it. Turning key produces relay clicking but not solenoid or starter turning.

Any suggestions? Should I just replace the starter?

Thanks,

Haasman
#302580

[304065]

First of all, WELCOME to the forum. You will find many of us SWB owners here.

Don't replace the starter. If it's original 65, save it, the part number changed on the later ones.

Sounds like low battery voltage, did you charge it after you installed it? Battery voltage should be at least 12.5v with the engine off measured at the battery terminals.

You could have excessive oxidation on the starter cable and terminal as well. Disconnect the battery, jack and properly support the right side and make absolutely certain you see bright metal on the heavy gauge wire to the starter. Be sure the teminal on the starter is free of grease and dirt (pretty common) before reconnecting.

Are you absolutely certain you have done everything you should before you start the engine? When you bring a car back from the dead there are a number of important maintenance items that are required before you start it. How are the fuel lines, particularly on your Solex carbs? These can dry-rot and leak with disastrous results. Has the fuel tank been drained and flushed of old gas, rust, etc? Don't want to pull a lot of bad stuff through the pump and lines. Original Bendix pump? Does it click when you turn igntion on? Again, be very careful of the lines.

WELCOME again to the forum. Our resident expert Grady Clay has written extensively on the correct steps to bring a car back to life-- if you "search" on his name you will find plenty of good advice.

Also, for new members a PHOTO of their car is customary! Glad to have another early car owner here.

[911pcars]

Before replacing the starter assy., check all battery cable connections in front and the ground cable under the gearbox mount. Electrons must have a good path to and from the load.

If these are clean and tight, bypass the ignition switch at the solenoid. Using a remote starter switch or equiv., connect the yellow wire on the solenoid to the battery cable at the starter. Solenoid should energize and starter should rotate. Use a voltmeter to confirm 12 volts at the battery cable connector. If solenoid is doing its job, the voltage should drop to about 9+ volts during normal cranking. If no drop, the solenoid and/or the starter isn't working correctly.

If it's a no go, remove starter from engine and bench test it for proper operation. You can disassemble and inspect, lube and/or repair.

If it's hopeless at any stage (your comfort level), take to a rebuilder or exchange for a rebuilt unit. Compare old with rebuilt to confirm same dimensions, then bench-test before installing just to be sure.

Sherwood

[zithlord]

Hi and welcome

Great tips from the experts already!

BTW: is your VIN 302580? I have that as an 66 model, 65 production.

Best
John

[304065]

Yes, 302580 probably dates from October or November 1965 as a 1966 MY.

Do NOT exchange the starter, you will get one back with the wrong number.

[haasman]

Thanks for the multiple replies! Wow, great group.

I will follow the collective advice shortly and report back.

Yes, it is a '65 911. According to the Porsche production literature, produced between April and June of 1965 and sold as a 1966 model.

As you must know, most state DMVs do not recognize 1965 911 models. When I moved to California some years ago I finally changed California's data base after working with a very nice local DMV manager.

Mine was produced with sunroof, front and rear sway bars and a gas heater.

As a further background on me, I used to work fro Grady Clay in Denver at his Rennenhaus for a summer job while in college. We used to race around the old Aspen track almost every weekend. Great fun.

I ended up working for Porsche PCNA for about five years. Lucky to meet the Doctor a few years before his passing. That's another story.

Haasman

[zithlord]

Look at this list, your car is produced oct/nov 65 NOT in the spring. Remember, a lot of the litterature is wrong and mix up model year and production year. This list is made up of actual documented cars. Your car is a 1966 model. On the other hand a lot of the real 65 models 911 in the US where registered as 66 modells(if not all)

301621---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----France
301759---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----Holland
301790---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----So Cal
301803----902010--- ----------------------- 20 July 1965/1965 "marinmccreevy"
301807
301814---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----David Hedderly-Smith
301826----901936--- 101835--6206------- 7-8-1965/1965 John Ashford
301836
301858----900661--- ----------6407--- ---- ------------ benman0034
301879----901919---101857---6412--------21 July 1965/1965. Baltimore, USA
301911---- ----------- ---------- ------------ ----------- ----Chicago
301920---- ----------- ---------- ------------ ----------- ----Boston
301931---- --------- 101962---6406--- ---- -------------- England
301932---- ----------- ----------------------- ---------- ----Jack Troup
301940----901967--------------6401-------- July 1965/1965 - David "LGK6D" *RHD

301945----902097---102019---6606------ 27 Aug 1965/1966 - "Richard-304678"
301994---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ---Charlson,SC
302015--- ----------------------- ------------ Sep 1965/ - Belgium
302064----902158---102075---6404------- -----------/1966(COA) Belguim
302129
302138--- ------------ --------- 6602-------- --------- /1966 - Kenaichoochoo”
302144----902330--- --------- 6608-------- --------- ---- ”sammyrad”
302338----902471--- ----------------------- Sep 1965/ - France
302413--- ----------- ----------- ----------- Sep 1965/1966 - Sigurdson
302455----902715---223356---6411------- 14 Oct 1965/1966 ..”kenikh”
302646----900420--- ----------------------- ----------- --- Frank Bennallack
302672----902929---223059---6604---------------------- John “302672”
302694----902833--- ----------------------- ----------- --- ”Arctic Rat”
---<302695>------Non-adjust to / adjustable front shock towers
302831--- ------------ ---------- ------------ 12 Nov 1965 - "semjon"
302861---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----Belgium
302933---- ----------- ----------------------- ----------- ----Rick Cabell
302943----902965--------------6602----------------/1966 England
302947----903154------------- 6602----- 25 Nov 1965/ - "in LA”
302981----903143---225230--6608----- 24 Nov 1965/1966(COA)R.Schneider
303056----903279---225903--- ---------- 4 Dec 1965/ - East Coast
303129----903235---225591-------------- 1 Dec 1965/1965 (COA) JHunter
303192--- ------------ ---------- ---------- Dec1965/ - France
303212 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - “66S”


This is a link to the tread:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12939&page=12&highlight=final+transition

[haasman]

zithlord

It looks like, by the list you supplied and by the referenced link that #302580 is indeed a 65.

haasman

[zithlord]

Haasman, look at Kenikh's car:

302455----902715---223356---6411------- 14 Oct 1965 production date/1966model year ..”kenikh”

Its produced in 65, but it is a 66 model car. Nobody would consider it a "65". Yours is produced slightly later, and is also a "66".

I am not trying to kill your joy over thinking you had a 65, but we have had so many debates over this issue on the different Porsche web sites and a lot of cars being misrepresented in adds etc, and people getting disapointed. I almost bought a 66 myselves here in Norway a few years ago, the seller presented it as a 6(it was a late 65 production). He also mixed up production year and model year and to this day he belives it to be a 65 and not a 66, Even if the factory agrees with the cars produced after the summer of 65 to be 66 cars.

Best
John

[Davz912/911]

As I understand it, anything produced after summer break (Aug) is considered the following years model. So if built in Sept of 65 it would technicaly be a "66"


Cheers,
Dave

[304065]

Haasman,

Model year 66, production year 1965. We would call that a '66 although with its center-lubed cams and Solex carburetors it's very similar to MY 1965 production.

A few questions that will help tell the story:

Where is the washer bottle?
What color gas tank?
Where is the aluminum VIN tag located?
Does the trunk latch panel have bumps on left and right sides, or just the right?
What does the ignition switch bezel look like? Large or small diameter?
Nadella or Lobro axles?
302695 was first car with adjustable camber.

[haasman]

thanks for all the replies-

My car's trunk looks very similiar to the one pictured above.

Here are answers to the questions:

Where is the washer bottle? Located just like the picture, inserted into inner fender wall with fill-neck emerging out.

What color gas tank? The gas tank is is gray

Where is the aluminum VIN tag located? The VIN tage is located just as in the picture.

Does the trunk latch panel have bumps on left and right sides, or just the right? ---> I am not sure what this is desribing, under the hood?

What does the ignition switch bezel look like? Large or small diameter? The bezel seems to be large but might have been replaced.

Nadella or Lobro axles? the car has Löbro half shafts, maybe replaced before I owned it?

302695 was first car with adjustable camber. My car has solid upper shock mounts with no adjustable camber.