Seller's Be Ware

[Vintage911Racer]

I was in the midst of selling my car to a guy in Texas. We have been talking for about 3 weeks. Everyting seemed a little strange. No deposit to hold the car, mostly email communications, and a few other things... But anyway... so the time comes to make arrangements for payment. I asked for a cashier's check or money order from a large institution or a wire transfer into my account.

His response was he will pay half with cash, and half with a money order that is already made out from a small bank. He does not want to do a wire transfer because of too much pay pal fraud.. I was never asking to do a pay pal transaction, simply a direct wire from his account to my account.

SO I agree to take the half cash and half money order under one condition..... He comes to the bank with me to deposit all cash and the check... Of course he says, I have offended him by my lack of trust and since I am the one selling the car I should be bending over backwards to make sure he gets what he wants.

FRAUD.... If you want the guys name, PM me and I will email it to you.

[GH85Carrera]

Usually they have a cashiers check that is more than you asked for and they want the extra cash back. That way they could scam you out of the car and some extra cash. The only 100% safe way is a wire transfer into your bank.

[304065]

Greetings Most Honourable Sir;

[Rot 911]

It does sound odd that he would already have part of the money in a cashier's check. I have had people send me a deposit by Pay Pal and then bring a cashier's check to pay for the remaining balance.

[DW SD]

Could you have opened an account in your name at his bank and have the money immediately accessible?

For $20k+, I'd open an account in an inconvenient location and then simply wire the money to myself.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, just commenting on how to make sure you get your money in full before giving up the car.

Anyone with the type of sensitivities you describe is full of BS, most likely and trying to steal or commit fraud. Money from a stranger must be verified.

Doug

[RRico]

Dude,

If I were you, I would tell him to cash his own money order and give you all cash.
That story sounds strange. If you're not desperate to sell, make HIM bend over
backwards to get the car. You are the SELLER, the transaction should be on
your terms.

[Jagshund]

Leave Prince Joe Eboh ALONE!

[Elombard]

DOug I am not sure that would work. You could wire the money to yourself but if his check was bad and the bank did not realize it for a number of days I think they could reverse the wire?? Maybe if he had an existing account with the bank you could be assured...but if he closed the account after the transfer...he would have to be ballsey cause its a more serious crime but you would still be out the money.

[DW SD]

Originally Posted by Elombard

DOug I am not sure that would work. You could wire the money to yourself but if his check was bad and the bank did not realize it for a number of days I think they could reverse the wire?? Maybe if he had an existing account with the bank you could be assured...but if he closed the account after the transfer...he would have to be ballsey cause its a more serious crime but you would still be out the money.

Erik,
If you write me a check and I go to your bank, I can walk out with cash. I saw this done with contractors regularly during my home remodel.

The bank will definitely verify funds and pay out only as available.

I'm not sure what the difference would be if I were also one of the bank's customers, even if only temprorarily. Maybe a banking expert would chime in.

Doug

[widgeon13]

When I bought my current car, I flew to CA, checked out the car and went to the bank with the owner and did the wire transfer, that's what he asked for and then we arranged for the car to be shipped back east. He took care of delivering it to the truck (Intercity) and all went very well. I was not pissed when he asked for the wire transfer and he was good to handle the details of the shipping once I left town. Everyone went away happy. Guess I was fortunate.

Of course, if he screwed me I have ways of addressing that as well so I guess he was lucky!

He was a good guy and the car was everything he said it was, end of story. Sorry your experience is not going as smoothly.

I also sold my M3 to a fellow from Kirkland WA and he paid for the car before he came east, saw the car, drove it for 10 minutes and left that afternoon to drive back home. He and I exchange emails periodically, great experience for both of us.

Can't understand why some people make things so difficult.

[VroomGrrl]

I was damned lucky that the guy who sold me my car was a super nice easy-going and very trusting guy. I flew to Houston where he lived, brought 20% in cash & had a check from my funding bank for the remainder. CHeck made out to him and me. We talked about it up front & he was fine with that. I signed over the check to him and off I went with his car.

I was an hour away when he called to say his bank wouldn't take the check! I told him I'd come right back, but he said that even if I'd been with him at the bank, they would not take a check made out to 2 people, period.

If I had been him, I know I would have been seeing RED, and I probably would have lost my cool and demanded that my buyer bring me back my car and take a hike until I had funds in hand.

He wanted a wire xfer, totally reasonable! But I couldn't get my funding bank to do that. I did get them to immediately overnight him a check made out only to him. I told him I was going to feel like I was driving HIS car until he had his money. I was home (650 miles away) with his car by the time he got that check, and all told it was probably close to a week before he actually had the cash money in hand.

As soon as I got home I sent him a big fat gift card to his favorite restaurant as a thank-you for his kindness. I still email him every now and then to thank him for his kindness thru all that. I really don't know that I would have been as nice about it.

One thing - you said you had a bad feeling as you were working with this guy over the 3 weeks. I guess we need to follow our guts. I had a good feeling about the guy I bought from, and he had the same about me, or I am sure it would all have gone to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly! I trusted him enough to fly to Houston to buy his car (after a good PPI, but still, he could have been a scammer in other ways, or done things like take expensive stuff off the car after my PPI and put cheap stuff back on and I would NEVER have known...) and he trusted me enough to know I'd get him his money.

This could have ended SO badly. I know I was extremely lucky. I talk to him occasionally and we have both said that we learned some important things from this about how we'll go about buying & selling next time! I am sorry your deal didn't work out. Hopefully a decent buyer will come your way pronto!

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

...great experience for both of us.

Can't understand why some people make things so difficult.

Because some people are crooks.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by VroomGrrl

CHeck made out to him and me. We talked about it up front & he was fine with that. I signed over the check to him and off I went with his car.

What's the strategy with that move? Checks made out to two people are so both people can obtain funds (e.g. insurance settlement). He was the seller and only he should be getting the funds.

[Esel Mann]

I understand you want to flag fraud. However to do so in a public forum, one better have something conclusive before doing so.

Honestly, from your description, I can see the POTENTIAL for fraud, but I can also see the potential case where buyer and seller simply have different terms on executing the deal. Hence I cannot see anything conclusive about fraud (picture a scale, tips one way for fraud, the other for a deal which has difficult terms). The scale is simply in the middle. Could go either way.

I am not saying you should have gone through with the deal. Clearly the execution of the deal was not to your liking. No problem. What I am saying is simply the buyer and seller could not come to an agreement about executing the deal. Without additional conclusive information leave it at that. Walk away. There is a BIG difference between a buyer/seller trying to attempt fraud and trying to ensure the deal is more favorable to themself.

I have participated in my fair share of buying and selling. I have been easy going sometimes, and at other times, from the perspective of the otherside, a royal pain in the ass. In all situations I can say (a) fraud was not my intent, and (b) I was ensuring the deal was executed the way I wanted it to be.

[kfosburg]

I had at least 5 fraudulent offers for my Audi when I sold it a couple of years ago. All of them were cashiers checks for over the amount type... If it smells even a little bit, then it is probably rotten... No way your buyer is legit IMHO.

Here's a funny blog regarding the typical scam:

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Scam/

Karl
71 911E

[VroomGrrl]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

What's the strategy with that move? Checks made out to two people are so both people can obtain funds (e.g. insurance settlement). He was the seller and only he should be getting the funds.

I totally agree. I wish I ran the bank! Such are the hazards of buying a car with borrowed money - very few options for lenders on cars over 7 yrs old. The fact that they so easily replaced the first check with one made out only to the seller made me wish I had been firmer up front about how the funds would be handled. Hindsight = 20/20.

[evergreen]

Originally Posted by Vintage911Racer

....SO I agree to take the half cash and half money order under one condition..... He comes to the bank with me to deposit all cash and the check... Of course he says, I have offended him by my lack of trust......

This buyer is a waste of time. Seller should terminate all discussions unless the buyer agrees to meet at the bank. Esel Mann's previous post makes a fair point but only insofar as urging the forum to refrain from prematurely accusing the prospective buyer of attempting to commit criminal fraud.

I have no problem with 'outing' the prospective buyer on this forum as someone who should be avoided-- via pm seems discreet enough.

Prior to money changing hands, whether the buyer is a full-on con artist or someone who is simply stalling the seller until sufficient funds become available is not of practical importance. Seller's request to meet at bank for funds verification is 100% reasonable. Life is too short to tolerate this type of nonsense.

[Hugh R]

When I sold my DB4, it was a wire transfer to my bank. I went into my bank, they assured me the money was there and couldn't be taken back out. For good measure, the buyer agreed to not arrange for pickup of the vehicle for several weeks. I also promised that I would maintain insurance on it and not drive it until it was picked up. I certainly wasn't going to screw around with the buyer; the Prime Minister of Kuwait.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by VroomGrrl

I totally agree. I wish I ran the bank! Such are the hazards of buying a car with borrowed money - very few options for lenders on cars over 7 yrs old. The fact that they so easily replaced the first check with one made out only to the seller made me wish I had been firmer up front about how the funds would be handled. Hindsight = 20/20.

OK, I understand now. I didn't understand the part "your funding bank"...was providing the two-party check. Nonetheless, your name should not have been on it. If you were a scammer, you could've cashed the check and split with the funds. Oh well...whaddya expect from an Alabama bank?

[acapella8]

Originally Posted by Here's a funny blog regarding the typical scam:

[url

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Scam/[/url]

Karl
71 911E

Read the entire article, fascinating. Never knew that cashiers checks were considered easily fake-able, or the "over amount" scheme. Wow, thanks for the information, a great read.