That's it! my first 911 restoration thread- '72 911 S back from the grave (maybe)

[florio]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading so many of your posts it seems fitting to finally properly introduce my project. I was looking for a 911 to restore, I fell in awe of the flat six that looks like it came out of a jet plane. Trouble is, the prices have kind of skyrocketed of late, and it came to a choice of an ok T with unknown rust issues, or-wait for it- an aborted restoration of a '72 Targa S. I found it from a porsche parts dealer in Germany and that was probably a clue that it might be out of my league. Still, I went to look at it, and it looked like this:





Please notice the VR duct tape holding on the targa and panels

Porche 911 kit: "Some assembly required"



Actually, the rest of the interior is in quite good shape, missing one headrest and a few parts here and there. Including, err, the floor:



Still, the engine seems to have been rebuilt not too long ago by the PPO:



So, armed with advice from fellow Pelicans, and emboldened by Mike Caterino's blog and so many of Pelican rebuilds, well, I fell right in!

The kit arrived from Germany to France just before midnight on Halloween's eve. I am sure it was the scariest thing in town...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/eek.gif



Yup, what was I thinking... Anyway, I started the restoration right away (beton = cement):



It's not to sink it with me in it, but it needs a real home with some tools, here it is once the floor paint (barely) dried:



I was so excited I dropped the engine on the way! It took all of 15 min. Of course, not having any fuel lines, oil pipes, cables, wires made the job easier. I wish I had fuel lines, oil pipes, cables...:roll eyes:



Next comes the real work, stay tuned for how the chassis was straightened!

[florio]

Here is the latest update from the restoration front of the 1972 Targa S!

The chassis has, unfortunately, "tolerance issues". I took measurements from a few points underneath, and they are pretty much within specs. However, the car spent a couple of years without a floor and was trailered here and there. Result: a small gap between the Targa roof and the chassis:



I'm pretty sure the 254 mm gap is beyond what would be considered "Sehr Güt" by Herr Porsche. Not to mention that it's not the same on both sides. The chassis opened and twisted some.

Here is where you come in: Inspiration came from a 10-year old thread, Thank you Flank wherever you are!

If you haven't seen this, it is amazing:
Flank's 71 Targa restro - Home made chasis jig - pictures

Obviously, I couldn't build this jig, and I didn't want to go looking for a garage with a Celette, so I took the most heavy, rigid thing in the garage: the cement floor.

I made up 8 steel legs (did I mention I bought a real MIG and love it?) that would hold 8 specific points of the chassis (four front and four rear) at exactly the right height from the floor. I then positioned them (two at the rear engine mounts, two below the rear torsion bars, two on the front support bar and two at the very front wishbone bolts). All the relative positions are on the Porsche diagram and you can easily calculate the difference in height between the points of the car with respect to an imaginary line. Then, I levelled the legs with a water level to adjust for the floor not being perfectly flat (I should know, I made it) and ground the legs to the exact height.

I then lowered the car onto the legs, and only three touched at rest:




As you can see above, I attached straps and pulled the chassis to the floor. I took it slow, and read somewhere to use a hammer to relieve tension. I was so tense I didn't know if to hammer the chassis or myself!

Then, a few cracking noises later, the location points were at the right place, so the real test was to fit the Targa:



Perfect! I measured the distances and they were exactly spot on and square! Even the door fits!

To hold it in place, I welded 6 steel tubes inside the chassis and one in the front.

I undid the straps, and the next step was to get the chassis cleaned up. I decided I would need to put it on a rotisserie, so I built one up with-again-ample inspiration from Pelican threads!





I cheated on one side, and went for a cheap engine stand. It works great, but the height is just a couple of cm too short for complete 360! Never cut corners again! If you're wondering, count on 100 cm ground clearance to fully rotate a Targa...
Still, no biggie I'm not planning on doing 360's all day long and I can lift it a little when needed.

Ok, now I need some advice: I removed the last of the floor next to the rockers. The rockers are solid, were obviously redone not too long ago. However, the inside sill on the longitudinal is gone at the bottom (right after where it holds the outside of the seat rail). If I repair this, how does it get welded to the floor boards? I didn't see anyone removing the rockers after they replace the floor to weld the inside of the longitudinal. Where's the trick?



As always, thanks for your help!

[Trackrash]

Now that is a project. Good luck, keep us posted.

[sc_rufctr]

I admire your gusto but this one is "ambitious" to say the least.

Best of luck.

[montauk]

Very clever! Best of luck with your project.

[mcaterino]

Florio,

Thanks for the shout-out. Glad my blog was useful. You've hit the ground running, which, with that chassis as a starting point, you had little choice but to do! Great work so far on straightening and strengthening.

For the rockers I'll share this invaluable picture I stole from DarylD's 912 restoration site. The inner longitudinal has a horizontal inturned flange that gets spot-welded to the floor. That's what you're after, right? Check out Daryl's site for more great insight and can-do spirit: DarrylD's Porsche 912 Restoration Project Journal



You've got the right attitude. Keep us posted and good luck!

Mike

[74-911]

You are a braver soul than I. Best of luck with your restoration and keep on posting.

[french911]

Hi Florio

Where in France are you?

Barry

[Bobboloo]

Good for you! You can do it.
While your in there repairing those longitudinal you should consider reinforcing them with some extra sheet metal. I did this on a 73' targa I had and it really made a difference in the way the car felt and handled. I basically doubled my longitudinal by overlaying a set from an 85' Carrera donor chassis I had.

Good luck!

[florio]

Thanks for the very positive feedback! I know it's going to be a long way ahead, but I was looking for a long-term relationship. I should confess that I previously restored a Fiat Dino coupé (that did not need chassis work thankfully), so it's not really totally new territory. Both cars have great engines, though very different.

Mike, thanks for pointing out DarrylD's restoration site, I had forgotten to bookmark it and it went off my radar screen. The flanges were exactly what I had imagined must have been there before it got rusted to dust. I'll try to source some extra longitudinal reinforcement metal as Bobboloo suggests. I can see that it will be a good idea on this car.

Does anyone know of other longitudinal reinforcement add-ons if I can't find a spare set in the near-by junk yard?

Barry, I'm in Bordeaux, a bit south of you

[sballard]

If you plan on replacing the outer rocker panels, you should carefully make several vertical templates of them from front to back before you start cutting out the metal. The replacement panels that are available are not quite correct and you can end up with distorted lines. Once you've cut out the old rockers, you will have lost your reference points.

Just my 2 cents...

[florio]

Thanks very much for the head's up Steve, I never saw that anywhere and it would have been sad to end up with ruined lines at the bottom. I'll make sure I get the new outer rockers true to the old ones before cutting anything.

[sballard]

If you look up rocker panels in the Porsche Parts Catalog, it says "It is necessary to rework." There was quite a bit of discussion about this a few years ago.

[Dpmulvan]

Wow I thought my restoration was gonna be tough your very ambitious keep up the fight!!!

[daepp]

Great work and great attitude - I wish I had even some of that!

Just curious - is French (Francais?) your native language? I only ask because your English writing and usage is so so good.

Best of luck on your journey - or is that Bon voyage?

[french911]

Hi Florio

Yes a bit too far for a coffee and a chat. Best of luck with the project, it will get worse before it gets better I know I've been there.

Barry

[florio]

Hi Barry, maybe too far for a coffee, but for a bottle of wine? The area's pretty nice, so let me know if you're passing by one day.

David, I'm Italian, not French, so it's buona fortuna for me. My family moved to the midwest when I was small (Michigan) and I eventually ended up doing a PhD in Chicago. Yup, that's globalization at work. Still, one of its more positive aspects


A gentleman that rents low(er) pressure sandblasting is coming by tonight to have a look. Hopefully, I'll rent the equipment for a day or two and get it all nice and clean. The technique is called "aerogommage" in French, and I couldn't find an english translation. Here is one link describing the technique, which to me is the same as sandblasting.... AEROGOMMAGE - Décapage - Rénovation - 100% Ecologique
If someone is familiar, or knows what it's called, let me know!

Thanks,

Dario

[florio]

The chassis will be bead-blasted next week (along with the front of our garage and the nearby neighbour's place if it's windy), so I hope to have some shiny pics soon!

In the meantime, I inventoried the places that will obviously need work. I'm posting them in case there is some special/hidden danger when I cut here or there. I'll definitively add more bracing before removing the inner and outer rocker panels to avoid distorting the bottom.

There is one nagging question: I have some pitting in the inner part of the torsion tube, towards the ends where the journals for the bushings are located. I think I read somewhere that it's ok, but I was wondering if that goes for these as well.

Here goes...



The other one is in much better shape, with only a couple of pin-holes. I'll be ordering one of the longitudinal/torsion area kits for this side as the bottom is rotten. Here is the rear inner wheel well, which is not well at all (poor pun...)



The worst is in the longitudinals and floor area:



The rocker panels were replaced, but I'll be redoing them to get better access, replace the jack tubes, and also because all the other repairs are really awful (more than 1/4" of filler on the sills). A bit in the front, just for fun:



Plus, a lot of little holes here and there, nothing too major compared to the worse offenders you just saw. So, back on the road soon, right?

Dario

[Flojo]

OMG... kind off crazy to really attend that "swiss cheese".
Cars with less rust have been sent to the crusher.

Good luck and lots of stamina to you!

[vintagecarlover]

Wow. I love the engineering that went into your jig. Thx for sharing and how the hell did u find an "s"? I'll cheer u on the whole way. Bravo!!