She's gone

[TroyGT]

I had a mysterious oil leak that came out of nowhere a week or so ago. I finally got the time to unbutton everything for a look. What I found wasn't good. This picture is of #4 on the upper valve cover. Looks like I blew out my rocker shaft sleeve. The shaft didn't come unseated, but it was enough to cause the valve to really make some noise. She's busted, what am I gonna do now? I don't even know what my options are at this point.

-Troy

[TroyGT]

Here's a slightly blurred shot of the engine itself. It hurts to look at this picture.

-Troy

[slodave]

Sorry to see this Troy. Looks like a top end for you. How many miles on the engine?

Dave

[tab tanner]

Drop the motor, pull the cam boxes on both sides, replace the damaged one, reseal, put the engine back in, and enjoy. Don't let this get you down, deal with a little bit at a time. I'm sure someone here has used parts to get you up and running. If I were closer I would be more than happy to help? Sorry I live in Ohio. Get Wanye's book ( How to rebuild your 911 engine) You can fix this!!!!

[304065]

That's a strange failure.

When the rocker shaft and cam box broke loose it's entirely possible that the piston hit the valve. Since a teardown of that side is required anyway, I would do the following, with the engine on the stand.

Remove all rockers on 4-5-6 bank. Note exactly which came from which spot, they go back in the same place.
Remove right-hand camshaft and inspect, rocker may have gouged the cam.
Remove cam tower.
Remove cylinder head on #4 and inspect piston top. If you see a half-moon shape in the carbon, that's contact.
Compress both valve springs on #4 head, remove keepers, remove valves. Note how many shims are under the springs so you can get the right seat pressure.
Inspect valves for straightness, renew valves and guides and seals if needed.
Reassemble.

Probably a 20 hour job?

[TroyGT]

Yeah... looks like I'm pulling it. I'm really sick about it. Thanks for the encouraging words.

So, the cam boxes are a separate piece that can be individually replaced? I was assuming that I'd need a donor motor for a replacement block. Sounds like I can pull a used cam box part or purchase a new replacement for this.

I don't think I had any contact, but you never know. The rocker shaft was broken in such a way that it could only travel away... and it was still fairly snug. I won't know till I get into it for sure. If there's no damage other than the broken shaft... with a replacement of the cam box. How much of a cost do you think I'm looking at?

Anyone have an extra 3.2 with a right side cam box they'll sell to me?

Thanks.

-Troy

[TroyGT]

Will this cam tower pair fit my 86 3.2 Carrera for sure? They came off a 3.0.

FS: Turbo Valve Covers / Chain Boxes / Cam Tower

Thanks.

-Troy

[MKEDF]

Hello there...

I had a problem last August....

I bought my first 911, and on the first trip taking it home, guess what...

Smoke!!!!....so much a couple of guys came by shouting the car was on fire!!!...


I found here at pelican parts a shelter to find all i needed to rebuild a couple of broken pistons/rings...

Gaskets, sealing materials, a set of excellent condition under specs p&c´s everything i needed to put my baby toy again on the way...

But best of all i found a really mature group of characers (angels) willing to help, with real knowledge and the will to help...


So up, up, up....you are at the best place you can be to fix your baby....

First of all you must drop your engine, tear appart and find out what else is broken or about to (one failure has to be isolated first), in order to find out if something else is about to break too or else needs refreshing...

You can do this your self or may be go to a shop, what ever you have at your reach or budget...

Then post a WTB add at pelican used parts for the stuff needed, and buy everything else on line at the shop here at pelican parts...

It is a fresh start, not a dead end...

MiCk..

[Superman]

If this is just a broken rocker and/or a rocker shaft that has worked loose, then I'd probably be tempted to replace those things and see if that cylinder has good compression. I'd do that before making a decisions to remove and tear down the engine. If the piston kissed that valve, then a leakdown test would show hissing from that (cylinder #4) intake port. Rockers and shafts can be R&R'd without removing the engine.

[TroyGT]

Yes, but the cam tower rocker sleeve is what busted and let the rocker shaft go. Parts of the tower out in chunks when I opened it up. Yes, a leak down test is next but I have to replace the tower before I can put in a new shaft. This all will require me to drop the engine, won't it?

[dtw]

Soup - the cam tower rocker shaft saddle is broken off. Yar, it be a dead hole, matey...

[Superman]

Okay, I get it. And now, as many times before, I'm in agreement with Mr. Cramer. I have the impression that the piston and valve got friendly.

When the cam tower is removed, so is the head. At least, if you are lifting the cam housing off.....then the head will fall off unless gravity is holding it there. Not that big of a deal, getting these pieces off. The cam housing is bolted to the heads. So....it's just easiest to take the cam housing off with the heads still attached. The real problem here, aside from possible piston damage or head damage or rod bearing journal damage.......is that once we are in there, we tend to spring for rebuild parts and machining.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Superman

The real problem here.......is that once we are in there

AKA the most expensive words in PP forums
AKA music to Wayne's ears

Good luck resisting the urge...

[Jeff Alton]

Is the valve not closed now with the broken rocker out of the way? If it is, do a quick leakdown on it first. You will know right away if that intake is leaking (from piston to valve contact).

If the valve appears fine and you pull the tower, just un bolt it from the heads, leave the heads on, they are fastend via the head studs to the motor so they will not "fall off"......

You will need a replacement bearing tower, not a 3 bearing tower.

Cheers

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Ahh yes. . . "while you're in there".

Let's see. . .

A replacement of my lower air box because the stupid little plastic nub thing that the rubber strap hooks onto broke off turned into:

- replacing all the fuel lines
- replacing the injector seals & seats
- taking the entire top of the engine apart
- replacing half the wiring in the engine bay
- replacing a couple hundred bucks worth of oil hoses
- replacing the air impeller and fan belt
- many, many, many hours of cleaning
- many, many, many more hours of polishing the intake runners
- . . . (not done yet, still slowly re-assembling things)

Ahh yes. The joys of "while you're in there". Because of this I haven't driven my 911 in over a month and a half and my wallet is considerably lighter than before. But the engine bay is cleaner and more organized (dammit!)



Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope it all works out okay for you.

[TroyGT]

Hi guys... I'm back. Been a little busy buying a new home and moving and didn't have time to work on the busted cam tower. Well, I finally got around to pulling the engine and getting it on a stand. I pulled the covers off and here's a closup of what I'm looking to fix. Ever see a failure like this before?

-Troy

[dtw]

Yep. Your rocker shaft 'walked' until one side was free of the cam tower, then the rocker broke off the boss. It is a common, 'uncommon' failure.

Believe it or not, it can be a relatively easy fix now that you're on the stand. Is all the shrapnel more or less accounted for? Parts list - Good used cam tower, new rocker shaft & probably rocker, possibly good used cam. Some gaskets/hardware etc. and you'e all set. Might even be able to resist the 'while you're in there' urge, as you may not even have to pop the heads off.

[TroyGT]

I think all the pieces are accounted for. Most of the chunks were sitting in the valve cover. I saw no visible damage anywhere, other than the break off. I hope it turns out to be nothing huge. I'll start pulling everything off tomorrow and see what I find.

Thanks.

-Troy

[dshepp806]

TroyGT: Damn,..hate to hear this. Now you've got me worrying about my baby.

Just recently, the car sounds like she needs a valve adjustment, while having one done about 12Kmiles ago. Tapping coming from the right side,..in addition, she leaking a bit more oil..appears to be from the VCs. I understand that I'll have to drop the Valve covers and have a look/see. I'm NO WHERE as capable as you guys and am terrified at what I may see. Thank God there's a group here that can assess without my drawing my neophite conclusions. I ask myself: what are the possible causes for this sound (from good to bad). I've driven her a bit in the meantime and there's NO smoke whatsoever (except a light bit after she's parked,..with this being oil that's dripped onto the hot exchangers). She gives me a drop or 2 on the ground,..that's it. Maybe nothing to fret over, but won't know until the covers are off, I guess.

I couldn't believe this post from TroyGT upon awakening this AM...makes me want to park her until I know what's up (inside). She still seems to pull quite nicely and the tapping is NOT very loud at all. While hoping for something minor, this thread has me wondering, 4sure.
Is it something that's loosened or is it something far more serious? In any case,..is it good that there's NO smoke, as TroyGT experienced,..or is this not neccessarily a definitive gauge of possibilities such as what he has experienced?

....not to hijack here,..it's 5:30 AM and I await the sun's rising to enjoy the early AM run...after reading this, my stomach doesn't feel the same now.


...SUB'd,.....best of luck to you, TroyGT...

..did I say: sub'd?

Best,

[TroyGT]

Don't worry too much about it Doyle... my problem came, I think, from my trying to stop/prevent oil leaks. I've got a 180k+ mileage car with some leakage, I tightened rockers on a couple of occasions, I also pulled the shafts and installed RSR seals. Had it nice and dry for a 3 or 4 months. Not a drop of oil and I commute it 80 miles per day. Then a drip, then a couple of days later, a few drips... then one evening coming home I saw a car tailgating me with his wipers on... noticed some smoke. When the guy came by me, he had oil all over his windshielf, where I had been leaking badly, and throwing it up on him with my rear wheels. What a mess! Anyways, I may have overstressed my already tired engine by wrenching things down a little much.

-Troy