Anyone replaced the starter yellow/signal wire? Please help.

[rnln]

I plan to replace this starter yellow/signal wire between the pedal cluster (floor panel to be exact) to the firewall in the engine compartment.

My plan is to cut this yellow wire at the firewall in the engine compartment, solder another wire there, then pull the yellow wire from the cabin at the rear seat. What I affraid is if there is any split (for other components such as AC, Radio, etc) between this distant. If there is, then I can't just pull it.

Another thing I affraid is if it snap? Then I have to cut off the big plastic sleeve (which go through the outside and underneath the car), which I don't want to.

I don't want to just cut it off and run another wire, because if there is a split between this distant, then the other components will keep running while I start the car.

Has anyone done this. If so, please give me a hint?

[ossiblue]

My experience is with the yellow starter wire on a 73, but I assume they are the same.

It is a dedicated wire to the starter solenoid and has no other devices attached. However, it is included in the wire loom with other wiring so pulling it through the loom would not work. What you are proposing, only in the engine compartment area to the rear of the tunnel(?) should work if the wire is exposed the whole way. Honestly, I can't picture what you want to do, but that's my fault in just not being able to visualize your problem.

Why do you want to replace the wire? Are you having dead ignition/start problems? Is there a visible break in the wire? Just curious as there may be another reason for your problem beside the yellow wire--it's a pretty straight forward connection with little reason to go wrong.

[Zeke]

If I read this correctly, you are not pulling the wire a long distance, just from the engine bay to the area in front of the rear seats. That should work with plenty of lube. I don't know what your plans are to get it the rest of the way, but you'd better double inslulate it as there are moving parts in the tunnel. Another way is to run it along side the tunnel. Use rubber grommets thru any drilled hole, of course.

[steely]

I took a look at my Bentley's - it shows that the Yellow wire is common to the A/C power starting in '86, but I do not know where this termination is found, and if it will be impacted by what you are attempting (upstream or down). (I'm not 100% on how to visualize what you are doing.)

If you decide to move ahead after you locate the A/C power, I would do as suggested, and run a separate line. You may want to consider leaving the existing wire segment in place in the harness, and capping any cut unused ends with a piece of heatshrink. (edit: assuming that segment is now completely dead.)

[john walker's workshop]

why exactly?

[steely]

For insulation. You could use tape of course.

[911pcars]

"I plan to replace this starter yellow/signal wire between the pedal cluster (floor panel to be exact) to the firewall in the engine compartment."

To repeat Mr. Walker's question: "Why exactly?"

Perhaps there's another solution, depending on the answer to why.

Sherwood

[rnln]

L.J., john walker's workshop,
Why:
If you notice, when you twist your key to start the car, you Ac/radio will temporarily shut down for the car to crank the starter. I think there must be some wires somewhere to deactivate these components but I am not sure where. If those wires are spliting from the yellow wire at the dash, I am fine. If it split somewhere between the rear seat to the engine compartment, I can't do this.
The reason why I want to replace this wire at this specific area is because I suspect there is something wrong with it there. I do have the famous "quiet starter" once in a while when it gets too hot. While it happenning, the voltage at the dash is fine, at the floor panel is fine, but it's dropped very low in the engine compartment. My test is to jump a 12+ to this wire at the engine bay, it start immediately. This tells that me that there must be something wrong with this wire between the rear seat to the engine bay. Also, sometime while twisting the key to start the car, I hear a sound of sparkle behind/below me (that area).

Want to do:
Cut the yellow wire at the engine bay, firewall. Solder a new wire there. Pull the yellow wire at the rear seat, inside the cabin. If I can be able to pull it, the new wire will come into the car at the rear seat (from the engine bay).

Unknown:
I don't know if there is any split (Y), or any components connect to this wire between the underneath the rear seat to the firwall in the engine bay.

Looking from the cabin, I think my wire are running on the driver side, to the bottom of the left rear seat, exit the cabin to ubnderneath the car along the catalyst converter side, up to above the heat exchanger, to the engine compartment on the left corner of the firewall, then down to the starter behind the intake manifolds. The distant between the firewall in the engine bay to the starter is fine. I know that.

On this distant, from underneath the rear seat, along upper wheelwell, up to the firewall, all the wires are running inside a thick clear plastic tube. I don't want to cut this tube open if I have a choice, although I can use electrical tape.

So, has anyone done this (the want to do)?

Sherwood,
Hope you can give me a free opinion which will work

Thanks guys.

[john walker's workshop]

the X terminal on the switch powers those things that cut off when turning the switch to start. there's nothing wrong with the yellow wire. good thing you asked. starters tend not to work when hot, when they're old. replace the starter with a bosch rebuilt one, not some crap from autozone.

[rnln]

Thanks John,
I replaced it with a rebuilt bosch unit. It helps but the problem is still there when it's hot, espcially after a long idle. I bolded a line above where I explain how I think is something wrong with my yellow wire.
Thanks.

[MichiganMat]

I would consider this a last option. Theres a better chance you've got a problem with your 14-pin connector or a bad ground than you do with the entire length of the yellow wire. I spent 2 weeks cleaning out the gremlins from my '75 and...

Heres my advice:
- Clean the yellow wire connection at the dash, my '75 has a connection under the gauges behind the blower
- Resolder/crimp the yellow connection at the starter, those can get tweaked and dirty
- Open up both sides of your 14-pin connector and separate the connections, look for shorts (mine had two), look for bad connections / solders. (careful, the plastic can be weak and crack easily)
- Scrub the 14-pin connector
- Be patient. Electrical issues, in my experience, take lots of time and a clear head to resolve.

I could be wrong about your yellow wire, but theres no sense in tearing apart your loom to fix something thats not broken, although your idea of soldering and pulling through doesn't sound half-bad.

Good luck.

[911pcars]

Okay. It sounds heat-related since you have this symptom only during hot starts only. Is that correct?

If so, it could be related to borderline wire connections inside the solenoid and/or starter motor. It could also be a physical blockage due to a tight-fitting armature inside the starter housing. With enough heat and insufficient clearance, the armature could stick inside the field coils.

As for your voltage readings. If your meter shows 12V at the #50 terminal on the switch (yellow wire) and 12v at the end of the yellow wire at the solenoid during cranking (remove wire from solenoid for this test), it's NOT the wire or the ignition switch (12v at beginning and end of test section = 0 voltage drop = ok). If the voltage at the yellow wire is healthy, look elsewhere. BTW, with the yellow wire connected at the solenoid, then cranked, the voltage should normally drop since the starter is using the voltage. Normal system voltage drops to about +9 volts during cranking (starter rotates). If the voltage drops and the starter remains stationary, something is happening (not happening) inside the starter housing.

Sherwood

[RoninLB]

my yellow has many connections from switch to solenoid.

I even cleaned the hidden Y attachment where the AC line branches under the dash.

I still have to sometimes use the direct solenoid switch I mounted in the engine compartment.

I just laid out 8ga yellow from starter to a bundle under passenger floor board. 10ga would have been fine. Final install awaiting. I went into the tranny coupler box then out the side to a run outside the tunnel.



it's not necessary especially with my auxiliary switch but I was laying out C2 spoiler wires so it's just a little more fun.


.... different strokes

[RoninLB]

for wild entertainment here's a look at the bundles I had to snake.

Harnesses formed with www.waytekwire.com double wall 4' lengths shrink tubing.



C2 wiring, 14ga
wires for 3 new fuel psi senders, 16ga
12 EGT/CHT probe wires
8ga yellow

wires laid up sacked against tunnel side and glued on with urethane caulking

[rnln]

What is the 14 pins connector? Do you mean the big connecter at the ECU?

Originally Posted by MichiganMat

I would consider this a last option. Theres a better chance you've got a problem with your 14-pin connector or a bad ground than you do with the entire length of the yellow wire. I spent 2 weeks cleaning out the gremlins from my '75 and...

Heres my advice:
- Clean the yellow wire connection at the dash, my '75 has a connection under the gauges behind the blower
- Resolder/crimp the yellow connection at the starter, those can get tweaked and dirty
- Open up both sides of your 14-pin connector and separate the connections, look for shorts (mine had two), look for bad connections / solders. (careful, the plastic can be weak and crack easily)
- Scrub the 14-pin connector
- Be patient. Electrical issues, in my experience, take lots of time and a clear head to resolve.

I could be wrong about your yellow wire, but theres no sense in tearing apart your loom to fix something thats not broken, although your idea of soldering and pulling through doesn't sound half-bad.

Good luck.

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by rnln

What is the 14 pins connector? Do you mean the big connecter at the ECU?

Its possible that the 3.2 Carrera cars don't have a 14pin, Im not sure. The 14pin connector on the older cars is at the engine harness where is plugs into the control panel mounted on the drivers side in the engine compartment.

[rnln]

...

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Okay. It sounds heat-related since you have this symptom only during hot starts only. Is that correct?

yes, but not at the starter solenoid

As for your voltage readings. If your meter shows 12V at the #50 terminal on the switch (yellow wire) and 12v at the end of the yellow wire at the solenoid during cranking (remove wire from solenoid for this test), it's NOT the wire or the ignition switch (12v at beginning and end of test section = 0 voltage drop = ok).

it is 11.xx at the dash. 11.xx at the floor board. And only 7.xx at the engine bay, even before it goes to the starter area. yes it is 7.xx at the stater. The voltage drop point is between the rear seat and the engine bay firewall.

[rnln]

8 gauge cable? are you trying to hit the starter directly? I don't want to do that. I just want to replace the bad section of the wire, or any connection there. This is why I wan tto know what/how the yellow wire acts/does between the rear seat to the firewal engine bay. After a lot of work, I figure out the voltage drop point is somewhere between that short distant.

have you ever pull the wire loom (or any wire) running from the rear seat ont he passenger side to under the car and up to the engine bay firewall?

Originally Posted by RoninLB

my yellow has many connections from switch to solenoid.

I even cleaned the hidden Y attachment where the AC line branches under the dash.

I still have to sometimes use the direct solenoid switch I mounted in the engine compartment.

I just laid out 8ga yellow from starter to a bundle under passenger floor board. 10ga would have been fine. Final install awaiting. I went into the tranny coupler box then out the side to a run outside the tunnel.



it's not necessary especially with my auxiliary switch but I was laying out C2 spoiler wires so it's just a little more fun.


.... different strokes

[john walker's workshop]

11V anywhere is very low. probably your main issue. should be 12.5 to 13V from a standing battery and 13.8-14.2 running. do a gravity check on all the cells with a hydrometer and a load test. 150A for 15 seconds and a good battery should not go below 10.5 volts during the test. you can lose voltage due to dirty grounds also. remove all battery and chassis grounds, sand, clean and apply dielectric grease and tighten with new washers and nuts.

[RWebb]

Ron tends to overdo things electrical...

my advice is forget about the yellow wire being bad for now - leave that as the last thing to check

I DON"T THINK ANYONE HAS EVER GONE WRONG FOLLOWING JW's advice..