What to do...

[zevenbergena]

As some of you may have seen on my recent post, "Is this what a broken headstud looks like? (Is this what a broken head stud looks like?) I have discovered two broken headstuds, and have come to the point of some serious decision making- keep the car, ditch the car, etc. I'm sure it is a point that has been visited before by many of our fellow Pelicans, and would appreciate insight/wisdom from everyone here.

A little bit about me, the car, and where this is all going:
The car is an '80 SC, 3.0L with CIS, an overall clean, well-working vehicle. Odometer currently reads about 188,6XX miles.
I bought the car a year ago, of course fell in love with it at first sight, took out a loan to get it. So basically, I owe on the car, and it keeps breaking on me. July, fuel pump wiring harness and engine wiring harness burnt up, an inconvenient and just overall frustrating ordeal. Now with an immenant rebuild on the way, I've decided to take an honest look at what I want out of the car...

First, what I have to look forward the next couple of years... I enlisted in the Navy this June, and will be leaving in March of this next year. After bootcamp, I'm heading down to South Carolina for two years of Nuclear school (intense schooling, minimal fun time). After school is completed, I go out into the fleet! Overall, it is a 6 year enlistment, and realistically the car will spend most of that time in storage or being driven minimally, at best.

So it basically seems to me that I have 3 real opions:
1) Keep the car in long term storage and do a full restore someday. Do it at my own pace and get to do all the work I want to do myself (engine and suspension would be really fun, I think). Meanwhile, paying for a car I'm not even using, letting things sit to become less useable and increasing the car's needs for the restore.
2) Basically build the car up while I'm away, ship it to a paintshop, motor builder, suspension place, let them do all the work, have an awesome car when I get back, but have no hand in it, in addition to the incredibly higher expense of someone else doing all the work.
3) Sell it now, save up for a newer, nicer 911 when I'm out of the service or when it becomes apparant it would be worth while. Post-'84 aircooled, something nice.

What it all boils down to: I like, maybe even say LOVE this car, but it is still just a car. An awesome, beautiful, roaring car. It would kill me to turn it into a long term storage project, I'd rather see it go somewhere and do something whether its mine or not. It is not in ideal selling condition: 2 broken headstuds and a couple other mini-projects (rear quarter window seals, new piping for the driver's seat bolster, driver's door check... truly-- mini projects.), along with paint and suspension to return it to its former greatness. Not anything out of line with most SC's I see out there that haven't gotten the full treatment yet. My head and the financial thinker side say to ditch it, save the money now and buy something pretty later, but the 'dang it this sucks' side says stop being a pansy and love it till the end...
I've read the sad posts of people regretting years later ever selling their 911, but I'm already set on getting another one someday. And the realistic situation of not being able to take care of things the way I want to for quite a well is frustrating.

[silverc4s]

Z...,
If you can afford the payment & some storage charges, I would delay making a final decision until you have bootcamp, basic training, and your first cruise or two under your belt.
Reasons:
You will be a different person by that time, and your decision will likely be different than now.

Also, these cars are on their way up in value, and yours will not sell well with the engine troubles, you will LOSE money in that deal, for sure.

It is a great car, and you will want one again some day. This is your best opportunity to have that car.

Good luck, and thanks for being willing to serve your (our) country...

[GH85Carrera]

First off thank you for your (future) service to the country. No one really knows your situation better than you. I presume you will be in the Navy for several years. Paying to store the car will just be money lost. If you have some sort of free long term storage facility that can keep it dry and out of the weather then things change.

If you have to pay $50.00 per month to store it that will be $2,400.00 in four years gone up in smoke. The car is unlikely to appreciate in value that much.

Sell it, take all of that money and pay off the loan and if there is anything left start a 911 savings account. When the time is right get another 911.

[cubby911T]

perhaps some pictures of the car would help in our voting decision

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Sell it, take all of that money and pay off the loan and if there is anything left start a 911 savings account. When the time is right get another 911.

I agree. You have no great attachment to the car, perhaps the opposite, and you can find another one later on in life. The reality is you bought the wrong car for you, time won't change that fact.

[zevenbergena]

In terms of photos, I can supply them happily =D

The more I think on this (I know, the entire last half hour, right?), the more the decision becomes financial vs. emotional. Financially, I know it doesn't make sense to keep the car, but cars are rarely investment pieces anyway. I want this car and do love this car. The emotional detachment comes from when things go wrong, the overwhelming desire to kick it until I break a toe- again, this could happen with any car. My biggest consideration is the long term- I'm sure someday it will appreciate and all this and that. My concern is if I do take the dive and dump time, money, countless hours of emotional frustration into this car, will the end result be something I will be content and in love with? Or will I find myself wishing I'd started with a newer Carrera or further still just gotten something else entirely? These are answers I'm sure I'll have to find for myself over time, and trying to make the decision now seems difficult.
Porsche-Monkey: I'm going to have to politely disagree with the 'wrong car for me statement', I think buying this last car last year was probably not the best though out or financially reposnsible decision to ever make, but the last year and a half I've owned the car has easily been the funnest, most challenging/frustrating year ever. I went from knowing absolutely nothing about cars to changing my own oil, valve adjusting, on the brink of possibly doing my own rebuild, and given the take on the automotive world attitude which I know truly will stick around for the rest of my life. And on top of that, the awesome people I've gotten to meet through the local autocross community and this online community as well, I am very grateful for all of these experiences.
But on to pictures!

[zevenbergena]

and in the process of posting up all these pictures, thinking back on all the fun I've already had, pretty much set on manning up and going for it. If everyone just sold off their car the first time it became convenient, we'd have a bunch of schmucks on this board who just shipped their cars off to the mechanic, and that would be lame.
Advice and wisdom still welcome! I"m still going to chew on this heavily, but a little less disheartened than when the morning started.

[crustychief]

Well, Here is my $.02. I just retired from the Navy last week (in fact about 81 hours ago but who's counting). I don't understand why people sell their cars when they join up. You will need (want) a car after boot camp. Boot is the only time you won't be able to drive. There are some great roads in NC to drive on. Two broken head studs is really not that big of a deal unless you are racing the thing. I have been an instructor at an "a" school and almost every one of my students then "settled" for a car they didn't want, but it was all they could afford. The rest of them went home to get their cars from Mom and Dads house. You are going to Nuc school, you have to be somewhat intelligent to do that, I am sure you will make the correct decision regarding your car. If I were you, I would keep the car, enjoy it until you go out on your first patrol ( SUBS don't Cruise) and save the money to buy a newer car when you get back or put yours in the shop while you are out. BTW Thank you for Joining the military, I feel lucky to have been able to serve and I am sure you will too!

[cubby911T]

I agree with crustychief.....especially after see the pics! Nice looking car!!

[RWebb]

hope you are on a carrier

see how many engine parts will fit into a std USN locker...

you left out one option - hotrod the sucka!

people often buy a used car; fix it over & over; then feel like they are on a treadmill when the car is really approaching tiptop condition (nothing left to break) -- they then sell it to somebody who gets a windfall -- don't make that mistake

[mca]

I don't like the poll options.

Why would a rebuilt 3.0 get "killed" by a 3.2? I wouldn't pick that option based on that statement alone.

With 9.5 pistons, 964 cam grind and SSIs you would hang with a stock 3.2. At least, that is what I have heard.

What is your budget anyhow?

If you can afford 5-7k, do a full rebuild before the end of the year. Some local Pelicans will loan you a stand and the specialty tools.

[zevenbergena]

Sorry about the poll questions. There was a 100 character limit, and it could have more accurately been phrased as just expressing the desire for more power by doing a transplant than sticking with the 3.0 CIS.

Right now, my budget is pretty more or less non-existent. The wiring meltdown this summer pretty much depleted any fun funds I had laying around.
I enter the Navy in March, and will be making considerably more than I do now, and I also recieved an enlistment bonus that I'll recieve over the next two years as I complete portions of my schooling. By the time it's all said and done and my debts are paid off, when I get done with school in two years I should have nearly $30K in bonuses and savings to utilize. And thats before I go on the boat for 6 months and have little or nothing to use it on. It's not my goal to use it all on the car, but there is room to make rational and worthwhile upgrades and have fun during this entire process.
Things I plan/hope to address- headstuds (obviously), Carrera chain tensioners, 964 cam grind, MSD, etc. I need to sit down with a mechanic somewhere and find out if things like valve springs, retainers, extras like that are entirely worth my while. I want to do some racing, autocross for sure, and DE's but the car will really do at least 75% street driving, so I will be planning this build accordingly. I'd shoot for a budget of $5-7K, absolutely no more than $10K. I find it incredibly difficult to rationalize spending more on the motor than I dd for the car in the first place. At that point, I think I'd be crazy to not put that entire $30K towards something really nice, with everything sorted and already taken care of.
Basically, I'll have enough, but I still want to be smart about how I toss it around. That, I guess, will be its own beast once I get there.

[mca]

Originally Posted by zevenbergena

Sorry about the poll questions. There was a 100 character limit, and it could have more accurately been phrased as just expressing the desire for more power by doing a transplant than sticking with the 3.0 CIS.

Right now, my budget is pretty more or less non-existent. The wiring meltdown this summer pretty much depleted any fun funds I had laying around.
I enter the Navy in March, and will be making considerably more than I do now, and I also recieved an enlistment bonus that I'll recieve over the next two years as I complete portions of my schooling. By the time it's all said and done and my debts are paid off, when I get done with school in two years I should have nearly $30K in bonuses and savings to utilize. And thats before I go on the boat for 6 months and have little or nothing to use it on. It's not my goal to use it all on the car, but there is room to make rational and worthwhile upgrades and have fun during this entire process.
Things I plan/hope to address- headstuds (obviously), Carrera chain tensioners, 964 cam grind, MSD, etc. I need to sit down with a mechanic somewhere and find out if things like valve springs, retainers, extras like that are entirely worth my while. I want to do some racing, autocross for sure, and DE's but the car will really do at least 75% street driving, so I will be planning this build accordingly. I'd shoot for a budget of $5-7K, absolutely no more than $10K. I find it incredibly difficult to rationalize spending more on the motor than I dd for the car in the first place. At that point, I think I'd be crazy to not put that entire $30K towards something really nice, with everything sorted and already taken care of.
Basically, I'll have enough, but I still want to be smart about how I toss it around. That, I guess, will be its own beast once I get there.

Great info! This will help others chime in and provide suggestions.

Regarding the heads ... you can ship these out to reputable builders. They will be happy to discuss your engine plans and offer you options.

And like others have said, thanks for serving the country. Much appreciated.

Best,
Craig

[janz]

Can't help but to join in on this one. From the pictures your car looks solid and in nice shape which is the biggest obstacle to overcome when owning an early model Porsche. I say keep it and take it with you to where ever you get stationed. I served 6 years in the Air Force (sorta long ago) but on base they have car clubs with shops for members to use at a small cost. These include lifts and many tools you can borrow just by signing them out. Not only that, there are all those car guys that hang out there, better than the drinking clubs, and they would be more than happy to help wrench on a car like yours. Vehicles are pretty safe on bases and I'm sure the security details there will get to know your car and you rather quickly and keep an eye on it for you. Now you've got wheels like no one elses and every time you get in it you will smile. I say keep it and drive it and if your going to be away for a while on assignment there should be a place on base to store it. Now you'll have something to welcome you home when you get back. It will be a pain but well worth it. I'm sure you'll make the right decision based on your situation. Nice car, needs a whale tail.
Death from above.
Janz

[rllevin]

Don't put any real money into this Sc with almost 200,000 miles on it. Some one gave the advice of buying steel head studs and a gasket set and taking a chance on just fixing the obvious problem on the cheap. This make sense to me but rebuilding this engine, especially only the top end is not smart: top end by itself at 100k mile sure, but not 200k. And a complete overhaul with the bottom end is going to put you over budget before you even look at the rest of the car let alone overhaul the trans, suspension, etc.--all of which are no younger than the engine. You'll also have put a ton of money in the car with out increasing it's value all that much. Head studs or rebuilt it still has almost 200K miles at a time when I'm seeing Carreras with well under 100,000 miles going for $12,500.
Cars are emotional choices. Especially Porsches. I think it's time to let your heart be broken, pay the alimony and move on to something younger when you have more bucks.
Good luck.

[zevenbergena]

Thank you everyone, for your responses and input. It's been a hectic day, where I was ready to sell the car to a friend for $6500 to saying no way I'm keeping it, back to the middle of the decision making process.
Like I'd said earlier, just putting up the pictures from when I've owned the car made me toughen up a little, and realize how much I do enjoy this car, and ask myself, how much I'd be willing to invest to keep enjoying it the way I have so far, and I keep coming back to the consensus- pretty damn much. To give up on it now would be weak, and I'll only enjoy it all that much more after putting more of myself into it.

In terms of the rebuild, I am looking at a full overhaul, the gaskets/studs approach was only to make it until next summer or fall, for the proper work then. Even this seems a little excessively risky, as I know an intact motor is a much better starting place than a not intact motor, and I'd like to torture the parts in there as little as possible.
So the unfortunate but tentative plan is to store the car this winter through summer or fall, and start looking at Porsche shops down in the Milwaukee/Madison area, and start planning the rebuild!

[Por_sha911]

Get rid of that dog right away! I'll take it off your hands and I won't even charge you to haul it away.

Life is short. Since it already has 188k on it, drive it until after boot camp (unless the two broken head studs are next to each other. It will have to be rebuilt anyway and worst case scenario, you will have to replace it with a 3.2.

[mca]

Originally Posted by rllevin

Don't put any real money into this Sc with almost 200,000 miles on it. Some one gave the advice of buying steel head studs and a gasket set and taking a chance on just fixing the obvious problem on the cheap. This make sense to me but rebuilding this engine, especially only the top end is not smart: top end by itself at 100k mile sure, but not 200k. And a complete overhaul with the bottom end is going to put you over budget before you even look at the rest of the car let alone overhaul the trans, suspension, etc.--all of which are no younger than the engine. You'll also have put a ton of money in the car with out increasing it's value all that much. Head studs or rebuilt it still has almost 200K miles at a time when I'm seeing Carreras with well under 100,000 miles going for $12,500.
Cars are emotional choices. Especially Porsches. I think it's time to let your heart be broken, pay the alimony and move on to something younger when you have more bucks.
Good luck.

BOOOOOOOOO!

That is crazy talk! You can do a full rebuild for 5-7k IF you do the work yourself. You will basically have a brand new car. If you needed a tranny, add $1500.

Sure, you could get another p-car with miles on it ... but that car could need a rebuild at any given moment just as easily.

188k miles is nothing for these 911s. Wasn't there one in Excellence that had 800,000 miles on the chassis and it was still going strong?

IMHO, you car is the perfect candidate. Cosmetically it is in great condition. All it needs is to have the mechanicals fixed. Do that and you will drive your pcar for years and years and years with minimal upkeep.

[real550A]

Consider selling the car and investing the proceeds. At 10% interest (available in
many forms today), and adding in the saved insurance premiums, cost of storage,
etc. you will be able to have a mighty fine Porsche when you return from active duty.
Unless you just really have to have this car, it would defy financial sense to do it any
other way.
Best advice is: "Never fall in love with anything you can buy or sell."
Thank you for your service to our country! Mike

[aigel]

Originally Posted by mca

BOOOOOOOOO!

That is crazy talk! You can do a full rebuild for 5-7k IF you do the work yourself. You will basically have a brand new car. If you needed a tranny, add $1500.

Brand new engine and tranny for close to 9k. That is not a brand new car. Add paint and suspension, interior and you have the infamous $20k 911. That's with doing a lot of labor.

George