Will a Targa cut it?

[bentone]

Completed my first HPDC last month and have to admit I've got the bug. One of the things I didn't fully anticipate was how much I'd hear about safety issues. Not that safety isn't always priority #1, but heard a lot more "horror stories" than thought I would, especially in relation to hardtops vs. cabs/targas in rollover scenarios. Problem is, I've got a '79 SC Targa. Anyway, my question is simple:

All things being equal in terms of inherent motorsport risk, and assuming that I continue to track the car and eventually "something will happen", can I bring the Targa to par with a hardtop via custom roll cage, HANS, etc. in terms of safety, period?

If the answer is a clear "No", then I'll be selling the car if only to have a clear conscience regarding my own well-being and that of my family. I only have room for one Pcar, and I don't ever anticipate having a dedicated trackmobile.

But if the general response is closer to "Yes", I'd love to hang onto the car for glorious weekends like this when topless = priceless. Frankly, I'm not concerned about the performance drawbacks to having a body that flexes like Richard Simmons in the context of this inquiry.

Sorry, I know this topic is a bit of a downer, but I don't know any better place to get a straight answer. Thanks in advance

[450knotOffice]

To answer your question, sure you can. It's not that difficult, either. Have a good quality roll bar installed, wear arm restraints during the sessions (very inexpensive), and install a good single piece racing bucket with a five or six point harness.

I see this is your first post. Don't be shy about introducing yourself and your car to the members of the board. It's somewhat of a tradition here and we really enjoy seeing the new cars and members who join this forum.

[Bobboloo]

If your talking about a cage then the Targa might even be preferable over the coupe because once you put the cage in the Targa it will have certain advantages over the Coupe.

1. Stiffer chassis because of the Targa panels that are welded in the corners of the floor.

2. You will have more headroom and a higher roll bar than you would with the coupe. This will make it not only easier to get in and out but it will be could possibly safer in that your head will have more spce around it in a roll over.

Also, it's easier to weld a cage into a Targa than it is a Coupe.

That all being said if I were you I would be on the lookout for someone selling a Targa with a cage in it alraedy. If you find one you can get it for a dance and then sell your car for a small profit.

[76911]

I say Yes I run a targa alot and it works well And then like you said what a great wekend car with the top off!!! Check out G2 performance on youtube fro some videos of targa's running

[Bill Verburg]

I tracked my targa extensively back in the day, it was fine. There used to be a few that were raced in PCA before things got so professional'

Put a half cage and 5 or 6 point harnesses and have fun

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by bentone

Completed my first HPDC last month and have to admit I've got the bug. One of the things I didn't fully anticipate was how much I'd hear about safety issues. Not that safety isn't always priority #1, but heard a lot more "horror stories" than thought I would, especially in relation to hardtops vs. cabs/targas in rollover scenarios. Problem is, I've got a '79 SC Targa. Anyway, my question is simple:

All things being equal in terms of inherent motorsport risk, and assuming that I continue to track the car and eventually "something will happen", can I bring the Targa to par with a hardtop via custom roll cage, HANS, etc. in terms of safety, period?

If the answer is a clear "No", then I'll be selling the car if only to have a clear conscience regarding my own well-being and that of my family. I only have room for one Pcar, and I don't ever anticipate having a dedicated trackmobile.

But if the general response is closer to "Yes", I'd love to hang onto the car for glorious weekends like this when topless = priceless. Frankly, I'm not concerned about the performance drawbacks to having a body that flexes like Richard Simmons in the context of this inquiry.

Sorry, I know this topic is a bit of a downer, but I don't know any better place to get a straight answer. Thanks in advance

I think alot of the answer lies in what you plan to do at the track. If you are talking W2W not DE then the answer has a certain look due to the speeds and risks involved. If you are talking Novice group, then the answer has a different look.

Can anyone be too safe? Why no! Bad things happen all the time. It would best for ALL of us to go to the track with a full cage, HANS Device, full fire suit and fire system etc. But in reality, like you, many of us want to enjoy our car outside of the track and do not want a dedicated trackmobile so we decide to accpt a lower level of safety and mitigate the risk in other ways (speed, types of run groups, etc)

In my not so well informed opinion (Bill - others, I know many of you have some strong feelings), I would think if you are talking DE and not (yet) looking for your and the car's limits, your Targa should be ok (I take mine to DE and run with standard seats and 3 point harness). If I start moving up to the faster groups, I would seriously look at other upgrades since as you look for the limits, they can bite back.

Then again, there is always Autocross! Minimal prep, driving at 11/10ths!

[moneymanager]

I ran a Targa in de's and time trials for some ten years and still have it. My understanding has always been that the Targa roll bar is plenty tough in a rollover, probably stronger than the coupe roof. There is however an issue with the front windshield which, if the car should roll, can bend back toward the driver. I chose to ignore this and was lucky. I also drove well within my capabilities almost all of the time. Only you know if being a tad slower than you could be will satisfy you.
A full cage, making the car much less suitable for the street, will solve this problem easily. So would a couple of carefully crafted steel tubes running front to back mounting perhaps into the stock targa mounts. I thought about doing this a hundred times but never got to it. Whatever you do get a serious full face helmet...which could save all of your teeth and a lot of painful jaw or other surgery in some circumstances.

[DanS911]

Targa! Targa! Targa! Been tracking my Targa for years and really enjoying it.

[JeremyD]

The best safety equipment you can have is knowing your limits.

Get a DAS weekender bar that can bolt in/bolt out.

Spend some money on some decent tires and track brake pads and have fun.

Some people think you should only track your coupe with a nascar cage.

[JohnJL]

You can certainly be very competitive in a Targa. I think you'd be well advised to get a lot of seat-time before upgrading your car. You can make a Targa safe as discussed above, and if I can share some experience, I've found it a good strategy to drive your car as far as your abilities can take you before spending a lot of money and time on upgrades/changes. When you are limited by the equipment, then drive it a few more more times to learn how to adjust your style to deal with a limiting component/car and then upgrade.

I drove Targa Tasmania and many track days with my 1971 Targa with a hot engine it. It is very fast and quite competitive. Its still more car than I am a driver.

j

[signature65]

Dude every racing car from yesteryears were convertables of some sort. Run it!!!

[JohnJL]

Here it is...

[LakeCleElum]

Can't add to the good advise above, but see it's your 1st post. Welcome. Hang around, there's a lot of good knowledge to be learned here.....Post pic's when U can.....

[bentone]

Thanks a million for all the excellent advice - feeling much better about not having to put the car on the block after less than a year of ownership.

By way of introduction, bought the SC about a year ago after lusting for Porsches while driving (and still enjoying) Bimmers. Wanted something that needed some work I could screw up...boy did I find it. Thing has a 15-foot paintjob (no idea why anybody would depart from the original "Brilliant Black" that Porsche USA says went with that VIN) and a 10k mile-old Motormeister rebuild, but so far neither have given me any trouble

Definitely planning to focus on safety equip near term and basically learning to drive it - hopefully by then the motor will blow and I'll be able to justify a 3.6 transplant and maybe G50...although the 915 is oddly satisfying to shift especially now that Swepco seems to have finally greased things up a bit

Thanks again for the advice and hospitality

[450knotOffice]

Well that car is beautiful - even if it's a fifteen footer (in your words).

Glad you decided to stick with the Targa. You'll have a TON of fun with it at the track. My cabriolet is being turned into a DE/street car right now (ongoing process) and holds its own quite well.

[efhughes3]

1. One DE, and you're talking "cage"? I'd look at what Jeremy and Bill suggest; a "rollbar" or 1/2 cage.

2. The Targa isn't cause to sell, but you mention a G50 conversion. If your heart is set on that, then you should sell. You're not going to make any such conversion easily or cheaply. A transaxle conversion is in a different league than a motor swap. Why knock the 915? They work quite well, spend the huge sum of $20 on new bushings, make sure the coupler is adjusted correctly, and call it a day. Although, you may want to look at the Seine Systems shifter kit or the Rennshift unit to keep you from pulling a missed shift.

A Targa with many track days that is near and dear to my heart:

[JeremyD]

Hey Ed - you parked in Handicapped.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by bentone

Thanks a million for all the excellent advice - feeling much better about not having to put the car on the block after less than a year of ownership.

You are quite welcome. Do not be a stranger with your fine looking car.

...although the 915 is oddly satisfying to shift especially now that Swepco seems to have finally greased things up a bit

You are right, it is different, but once you get the hang of it, you do get a certian enjoyment.

If you have not read this thread yet (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/148172-915-transmission-shifting-improvements.html#post1162972) you might want to see if there are things you can do short of a Transmission rebuild/replacement to improve your shifting. I am now at 137,000 miles and who knows when I will open my box!