When a P-Car burns

[shahram]

Does it really make sense to have these little halon extinguishers in our P-cars when it starts burning?
Look at this vid how big his fire extinguisher is and he still could not put it out.
I am really sorry for this guy and his 964

http://www.frankenpost.de/nachrichten/fichtelgebirge/wunsiedel/art2460,907481

[richde]

That's a dry chemical, not a halon extinguisher. The way he used it is another subject. If it was my car, I'd bash in the grill with the extinguisher to get better access to the engine compartment. If you're not going to do that, opening up the hood is the only thing to do to stop, instead of slow the fire.

Who knows why it kept flashing up...unless it's oil from the oil tank.

[mpeastend]

The little halon extinguishers don't do much but if applied well they may stop a fire if caught really quick. The poor guy didn't use two extinguishers well at all, very poor application (but I'm quarterbacking, who knows how I'd react to my baby burning). Richde is right that the best thing the guy could've done was bash in the grill and shoot most of the extinguisher into the comartment & then attack any flames that crop up in the wheel well & underneath the engine but those are most likely a product of the fire on top of the engine and would most likely have been knocked down.

Where richde is wrong is in opening the rear decklid. I'm not a fireman but this is a big no no, it'll only flare up & get worse (which it did on the video). Any volunteer or active duty firefighters able to chime in on how best to handle the situation?

[Canada Kev]

I'm not sure if Halon would have worked very well in that situation. It works by displacing oxygen so the fire won't burn. This is great in computer rooms and the like, but in the O2 rich out doors, maybe not so much.

Regardless, it would be pretty heartbreaking to see your ride go up like that. So sad...

-kevin

[JeremyD]

Sure did look like gas that we feeding it the way it pooled under the engine and flared. but I agree with the others - bash in the grill - if you are going to open the hood - it will flare - and maybe then you can get the extinguisher in there = still sad.

[J P Stein]

Probably an electrical fire......smoke, no flames, then the gas lines got involved. It just kept reigniting.
Gotta pop the battery to stop it, then get the flamables out.
Shame.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

First thing is you need a master switch somewhere. I had a brisk fire in my SC recently--alternator problem--and I rushed to the trunk to cut off the battery, then put the fire out promptly with a couple of toots from the halon extinguisher. Nothing else got involved other than some flammable wire insulation. Master switch was the key, otherwise I'd still be blowin' at it.

[Zeke]

I've never seen a fire as stubborn as that. I have tried to extinguish an engine fire before and lost, but I didn't have nearly as much chemical as he did. The question is, why did he wait so long to pop the lid?

[vreference]

A shame he didn't open the lid. And yeah... I had an Alternator on a domestic that burned. I pulled over and tried putting it out but it kept reigniting. Finaly pulled the plug out and that was the end. Drove it home on the battery. If the same thing happened on the Porsche I could see how it might not go as well.

[TheGanzman]

I just bought a Sparco (here's a similar product in action):

http://loeschstab.thomasschulz.org/

Watch the video at the bottom of the link - 51 seconds of fire-fighting out of that little stick! Here' the Sparco:

http://www.elise-shop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=344&zenid=44ab956db9d8c7275e2d030fb477e55c

[e3photo]

What a sad day for the P-car. I used to be a firefighter, and I would of popped the hood right off and hit the fire directly. The next best thing would have been to bust the grill as others have suggested. It is not always the size of the extinguisher, but the skill when using it. I have never been to a Porsche car fire, but I have ripped my share of hoods off american cars ( the hood release is usually the first to go in a fire.)

Cheers,
Emerald

[glewis80SC]

It looks like a fuel fed fire, the way it keeps flashing shows fuel driven. The dry chem will put a barrier over the fuel to smother it but if that layer gets disturbed the fuel will flash if there is still an ignition source. I would have tried the quick knockdown from the wheel wells, but would have open the deck lid a lot quicker. Yes it was poor use of the ext. but most people are not trained on how to use them and if it is your own car burning the heart rate is going to pick up a bit.
Remember they don't explode either i've been on tons of these and they don't explode, the magnesium VW engine cases are fun though. Sad to see a p-car go up like that.

[crustychief]

I had a couple of VW fires. He should have got the grill or the hood open and not worry about the effects under the wheel well, concentrate on the base ( engine ) then mop up after that was out. When you are in that situation though you are running on adrenaline and aren't always thinking clearly. training is the key. an installed Halon system would have done the trick though. IMHO

[signature65]

I'm a firefighter and his technique was the problem.

I am in no way offering this as advise....take this as what I would do as a professional.( sorry about the disclamer)

With the proper gear and equipment the first thing you want to do is pop the hood/lid. You need to get to the base of the fire to get it extinguished. Of course we have 500 gallons of water readily available.

If my p car was going up I would still pop the lid when I had the extinguisher ready. Pop and aim directly for the base of the flames. Its not going to keep flaring up like that if its electrical. It will just smoler once the flames are out. Gas will keep flaring up like that. Its real easy to get the inital flames out only to miss the source and have it flare right back up. So get to where the fuel is leaking out and you will get the fire out.

You guys are right where halon displaces oxygen, and the dry chem smothers the fire. Both are fine for carrying in a car. I personally believe the dry chem are better. Cheaper, last longer, and do the same thing. Only difference is the halon doesnt leave a mess.....wash the car after!

So attacking a fire is a dangerous proposition without the proper equipment. But if its your baby you will do what you have to do.

[Joe Bob]

The guy looks like he was drinking at the pub....personally...popping the hood is a bad idea.

If he would flood the grill and and underneath...quickly.....

Just some monday morning QB suggestions....

[gtc]

I'd almost rather let the car burn than have to clean up the amount of dry chem he spent there. I had a small fuel fire while welding on the center tunnel of a 914 (back before I knew that the plastic fuel lines ran through it) and was able to extinguish it with a quick ~1-2 second spray from a dry chem extinguisher. That was a serious pain to clean up, even with the interior out of the car at the time.

[shahram]

I see now 3 options after reading the posts:
1: open the lid and try to extinguish the fire
2: leave the lid closed and bust the grill
3: let the car burn

I hope that never happens to anybody of us but if that happens I will have a hard time to pick the right option though

One more question is in which cases you get the money back from insurance or any at all?! Would it be better to let the car burn out, no hassle with dry chemical , cleaning up and getting the car fixed if possible at all?

[briancoates]

Getting the flames out is the easy bit, the problem is getting everything in the engine bay cool enough so it does not reignite the oil or fuel that fed the original fire. Once the flames are out don't stop the extinguisher until you are sure everything has cooled enough so it will not reignite. Then again as said previously if there is an electrical short and the wires are still glowing... well good luck. Most wires will burn out before causing a full blown fire; it is the main battery cable that causes the problems if it shorts. One cure is install a cut-out switch but if you are not there to use it, it is no use at all, better option is to fuse or circuit break the main battery cable as close to the battery as possible. Oh and as a side thought don't and I mean never route electrical cables alongside fuel lines! May seem obvious but check your car it is amazing what people cable tie wires to.

Oh and good insurance helps

[911 tweaks]

anyone here states side own (and where to buy) have used the Sparco Fireater sticks ?? They look effective especially when you get 50+ sec of use... What kind of clean up after using these?
It says no clean up... are the chemicals left behind bad for paint,... ??
Thanks,
Bob

[carr914]

I had a 914 2.0 Burn (Melt) to the ground. The Fire Dept actually got there very quick and they hit with 800 gallons of foam. The Magnesium kept re-igniting. The only things left were the exhaust pipes that were Jet-Coated & 1 velocity stack

T.C.