H4 headlight bulb replacement gone BAD

low944 · 10-09-2008, 07:30 AM

I failed inspection due to a high beam being out on my SC. so I go to replace the bulb and....

first the painted ring has a screw down at the bottom. it was frozen and a little rusty. It just started to strip with a screwdriver. so I got the impact screwdriver out. I got the screw to spin, but also cracked a little paint on the ring. DOH! so the ring comes off with a struggle.

second, I go to unscrew the 4 screws holding the headlight in, and all 4 screws just spin in place without coming out!! Any Advice ???

goldsc78258 · 10-09-2008, 07:37 AM

The four screws are not holding the headlights,those are for aligning the headlight, it should come out with one screw on the bottom

low944 · 10-09-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldsc78258

The four screws are not holding the headlights,those are for aligning the headlight, it should come out with one screw on the bottom

WOw. where the heck would I be without this site? Thanks, I will try pulling the whole light out and report back with the next thing I break....

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Just pull from the bottom edge where you remove the one retaining screw.

The top edge is held behind a ridge.

Warning , don't pull to hard the whole assembly will pop off and may hit your paint work.

4sd911 · 10-09-2008, 11:24 PM

Whenever someone asks a question about H4's I just think thier asking about the whole bucket type and not just the sealed beam type. What type are we talking about here? If there are 4 adjusting screws would these be H1 buckets? Maybe post a photo?

stevemfr · 10-09-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sd911

Whenever someone asks a question about H4's I just think thier asking about the whole bucket type and not just the sealed beam type. What type are we talking about here? If there are 4 adjusting screws would these be H1 buckets? Maybe post a photo?

You're talking 3 different types of bulbs:
- US sealed beam with ugly (IMO) fat rings
- H1's with skinny rings and
- H4's with skinny rings

The difference between the 1's and 4's is the bulb and the lens - the 4's are newer and more powerful.

With the sealed beams, the bulb bracket is attached to tabs inside the bucket; the ring is hooked over top of the bucket and fastened with one screw at the bottom.

The H1's and 4's are headlight units with the bulb inserted from the rear. This unit attaches the same way the sealed beam rings do. The skinny rings are either chrome or black and have the headlight adjustment screws in them (which low 944 tried to remove). The later cars had a color ring over this ring.

The best way to remove really tight H4's (once the bottom screw is out) is to use a rag, a small block of wood, and a medium screwdriver to carefully lever the bottom of the ring fwd. The rag goes under the wood to protect the paint. It usually doesn't require a great amount of force, so there is little danger of damaging the paint, but the required force is more than fingertips and fingernails will stand...

low944 · 10-10-2008, 05:06 AM

I finally got this thing apart last night. Turns out the screw holding the ring was rusted in the screw holding the assembly, that was stripped in place in the welded nut. I broke the welded nut trying to free up the ring screw. OOPS.

soo the fix was to drill out the rusted ring screw to get the painted ring off.
THEN drill out the assembly retainer screw while keeping tension on the stripped "supposed to be" welded screw. whew. now I need to buy new hardware for this light assembly.

Thanks for all the help!

My headlights are the ones with "H4" labeled on the lense. here is a pic...

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

Congratulations!

Really nice car, btw - and you have the "best" lights imo.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Anyone install HID lights in their H4?

hifeverz · 10-10-2008, 04:42 PM

I installed an HID setup in the standard H4 conversion (Hella aftermarket unit) on the sugar scoop trim type headlight. I was able to mount the ballast within the bucket and run the wiring through the standard holes. I did NOT want to drill or cut the headlight bucket.
I have the genuine H1 and H4 Porsche Bosch headlight assemblies and tried to check clearances. I tried to reposition the same ballast within the bucket with the Bosch H4 Porsche headlight assembly and there is NO room to clear. I'll have to mount the ballast in the trunk and revamp the wiring to run to the H4 or H1 Bosch units. I've found another HID unit with a smaller ballast than the Hella ones. I have a kit already that I've been meaning to try that has flat ballasts(approx 40% smaller) that may just clear.
I'm too lazy to get to it now . . . !! . . . but one day.

Hz

low944 · 10-14-2008, 07:37 AM

After further investigation of my lights, turns out both bulbs in each headlight (low and high) are H1's ! Is this correct? Should there be an H4 instead?? (The glass has the label "H4" on it)

dtw · 10-14-2008, 08:09 AM

Is there a socket for a main bulb, then a much smaller socket for a tiny bulb? That's an H4 Euro setup with a 'city light' (the small bulb). If you have two equally large bulbs & sockets, and also a 2nd reflector behind the lens, then it sounds like you have H1 assemblies (major score) with incorrect H4 lenses.

You can still get the H1 replacement lenses relatively cheaply here:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911E/POR_911E_ELlite_pg1.htm

The assemblies themselves are NLA and getting more rare by the day, so treat them with care.

low944 · 10-14-2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

If you have two equally large bulbs & sockets, and also a 2nd reflector behind the lens, then it sounds like you have H1 assemblies (major score) with incorrect H4 lenses.

This is exactly what I have. This is a good thing??

dtw · 10-14-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by low944

This is exactly what I have. This is a good thing??

Well, it is a good thing in that you have the highest-performing OEM lighting solution Porsche ever put in the early cars, that is now unobtainium and quite valuable! It is a 'bad' thing in that you now need to drop $140 on lenses to get the correct dispersal patterns. You can however, offset that with the sale of your used H4 lenses.

You can get great H1 bulbs from here or Daniel Stern (search here on board). Avoid the crap on eBay. Whether you have H4s or H1s, you should also read up on installing a relay kit on your headlight circuit. Especially true if you upgrade to some of the higher-wattage lights out there. This routes main headlight power from the battery to the lights via a relay, and prevents failure of your headlight switch, which by design runs main light power through the switch.

Congrats on your find! This should make up for the broken welded nut, and then some!

4sd911 · 10-14-2008, 06:19 PM

I was puzzled about the 4 screws, H1's makes since. Just remember that if you turned the adjusting screws your lights will need re-adjusting.

low944 · 10-15-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

Well, it is a good thing in that you have the highest-performing OEM lighting solution Porsche ever put in the early cars, that is now unobtainium and quite valuable! It is a 'bad' thing in that you now need to drop $140 on lenses to get the correct dispersal patterns. You can however, offset that with the sale of your used H4 lenses.

You can get great H1 bulbs from here or Daniel Stern (search here on board). Avoid the crap on eBay. Whether you have H4s or H1s, you should also read up on installing a relay kit on your headlight circuit. Especially true if you upgrade to some of the higher-wattage lights out there. This routes main headlight power from the battery to the lights via a relay, and prevents failure of your headlight switch, which by design runs main light power through the switch.

Congrats on your find! This should make up for the broken welded nut, and then some!

Thats for all the info. I found the high end sylvanias at my local advance auto parts. I am going to give them a try.

low944 · 10-15-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sd911

I was puzzled about the 4 screws, H1's makes since. Just remember that if you turned the adjusting screws your lights will need re-adjusting.

Thanks. I will adjust them as soon as I get the new hardware.

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Hard to say what you have there; true Euros or H4's or H1?
A picture of the lamp assembly and reflectors would help.
If they are true Euro lamps with a painted trim ring, then the OEM bottom screw is a 2in1 arrangement meaning: an inner screw and an outer screw in one unit.

The outer screw holding the trim ring is usually a Phillips.
The inner (hollow) screw is slotted for a blade screwdriver.
Both screws are brass and cannot rust.
The steel tab with the nut to hold the whole assembly, is welded on the bottom of the lamp bucket.
If the thread is stripped, the OEM screws will no longer work.
You mentione rusty screw; did someone replace the OEM brass screws with ordinary steel?

Impact driver for this is not recommended.

Pictures?

low944 · 10-15-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunter

Hard to say what you have there; true Euros or H4's or H1?
A picture of the lamp assembly and reflectors would help.
If they are true Euro lamps with a painted trim ring, then the OEM bottom screw is a 2in1 arrangement meaning: an inner screw and an outer screw in one unit.

The outer screw holding the trim ring is usually a Phillips.
The inner (hollow) screw is slotted for a blade screwdriver.
Both screws are brass and cannot rust.
The steel tab with the nut to hold the whole assembly, is welded on the bottom of the lamp bucket.
If the thread is stripped, the OEM screws will no longer work.
You mentione rusty screw; did someone replace the OEM brass screws with ordinary steel?

Impact driver for this is not recommended.

Pictures?

It is the 2 in 1 screw. and the ring screw must have been replaced with a steel one. I am hoping to find a correct nut to work with my new 2 in 1 screw on order. I really wish I had not used the impact driver. Thanks for rubbing it in! I am sure this is why the nut broke loose from the weld and got stripped at the same time. Maybe my icon should be a dodo bird??

I will get some pics and post them when I take it back apart. For now I purchased a long screw and nut to hold both the assembly and ring in place. I thought that would be better than driving my car around with a "black eye". I just cant help but want to drive it during these beautiful days in northern va this week!

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

By all means enjoy driving; we are just about doing winter storage here.

Make sure that the lamp assembly is secure in the bucket; they can fall out while driving as some people unfortunately have found out.

The rubber seal around the bucket is important to keep water out of the lamps.
When using new seals, it can be difficult to get the top lip to hook on.
I found that greasing the new seal with Vaseline makes it much easier to seat the lamps so you can make the bottom screw.

I removed the painted trim rings years ago and just have the chromed Euro lamp rings; they look good and only need a little polish now and then.