question: very STRANGE stater yellow wire performance.

[rnln]

I thought the yellow signal wire only get voltage when the key twist to start. When key is released, the yellow wire get 0v. So I added the starter relay right at the 14 pin connector (avoid getting under the car).

When I start the car, the engine is running fine but the starter keep spining and grinding on the flywheel. I pull the relay and start the car as stock, everything is fine. I suspected that the relay keep putting out voltage after the key is released to ON position. Finally I was right.

Now I put everything back to normal and examinate the yellow wire. What I found makes me so confused. When key is at ON position, car is not running, my yellow wire get 11.9v. When I twist the car to start the car, it get 12.2v. When the car is running, this wire is till showing 11.9v. Is this normal?

Yes, I got the right wire. It the biggest yellow wire going into and comming out of the 14 pin connector. Am I getting the wrong wire? Anyone has any thought?

[rnln]

OMG, I got partial of the answer, but it's still strange. When I break the circuit, of the yellow wire, it always get 11.xx volts at ON position. If the circuit is complete (connect to the starter), it will be 0v. Wow. Why/How connecting to the starter make the yellow wire 0v, at ON position, and not connecting to the starter makes it 11.xx volts?

[TERRIBLEHONDO]

I have a 1978 SC when I got the car I was checking out underneath and noticed a yellow wire with connector that looked like it should hook to the starter. The bentley book showed it hooked up and feeding power to the cold start valve. I hooked it up and had the exact same problem with the starter engaged with the engine running. I unhooked it and let it hang. I live in Florida so cold start is not an issue. Sorry I do not have an answer on why I just wanted you to know that I had the same issue.

[911pcars]

"So I added the starter relay right at the 14 pin connector (avoid getting under the car)."

And this was the beginning of your symptoms? Then that might be the source of the symptom.

Can you show or describe how the relay is added to this connector?

Sherwood

[rnln]

First of all, assumming everything is normal on stock setup, only once is a while I have too much voltage drop somewhere before the 14 pin connector. So I want to add a relay there to use a battery source instead of the yellow wire source. The yellow wire will be cut and turn into a signal wire for the relay. See the first pic, second part.



I wasn't success. After the car started, the starter keep spinning and grinding on the flywheel. Why? I then start measuring the yellow wire, on this setup. It turn out that the yellow wire always carry 11.xx volts when it is cut/disconnected. When I connect the yellow wire back to normal (by pass the relay), then everything is back to normal (0v when key at ON position).

My question now is...
To avoid cutting/disconneccting/interupting the yellow wire while having the use of a relay to supply full voltage to the starter, can I connect the relay as below?... let say gate 86 and 87 are having the same source, 11v. When gate 30 supply full 12.5v, gate 87 will supply full 12.5v to the yellow wire.

I am thinking this circuit will give my yellow wire a full voltage without interupting it. But my electrical education/experience is limited, therefore can't tell if this will give me any trouble... or even problem to other related circuits.

[911pcars]

Here's some info on adding a remote starter relay to my early 911. On mine, the yellow wire goes directly (it seems) from the ign. switch to the starter solenoid, but from your description its function is identical - ignition on crank = 12 volts; ignition ON = 0 volts.

Compare the circuit connections on the following page with your relay connections. It's possible the relay remains energized after releasing the ignition from the crank position:

http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars/RemoteStarter.htm

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

[rnln]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Here's some info on adding a remote starter relay to my early 911. On mine, the yellow wire goes directly (it seems) from the ign. switch to the starter solenoid, but from your description its function is identical - ignition on crank = 12 volts; ignition ON = 0 volts.

Regards your circuit, I have been reading it and using it for the value o f the fuse. The different between your circuit and mine is that you leave the stock yellow wire untouched, while I cut the yellow wire to turn it to the relay's signal wire. When the yellow wire cut off the starter (disconnect to the starter), it constantly give 11.xx volts. In my cast, it's connect to the relay, same result.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Compare the circuit connections on the following page with your relay connections. It's possible the relay remains energized after releasing the ignition from the crank position:

Yes, true, the relay remains energized. Why? Because when the yellow wire is not connected to the starter directly (it is connected to gate 86 on relay), it is constantly giving 11.xx volts.

Can you tell if my third circuit is vailid and will it work?

[CruiseControl]

Do not use the third circuit !!!
Once the relay coil is energised it will not de-energise when the key is released from the "crank" position. This is because the relay contacts are "latching" (will continue to feed the relay coil from the additional 12v supply).

Paul

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rnln

First of all, assumming everything is normal on stock setup, only once is a while I have too much voltage drop somewhere before the 14 pin connector. So I want to add a relay there to use a battery source instead of the yellow wire source. The yellow wire will be cut and turn into a signal wire for the relay. See the first pic, second part.



I wasn't success. After the car started, the starter keep spinning and grinding on the flywheel. Why? I then start measuring the yellow wire, on this setup. It turn out that the yellow wire always carry 11.xx volts when it is cut/disconnected. When I connect the yellow wire back to normal (by pass the relay), then everything is back to normal (0v when key at ON position).

My question now is...
To avoid cutting/disconneccting/interupting the yellow wire while having the use of a relay to supply full voltage to the starter, can I connect the relay as below?... let say gate 86 and 87 are having the same source, 11v. When gate 30 supply full 12.5v, gate 87 will supply full 12.5v to the yellow wire.

I am thinking this circuit will give my yellow wire a full voltage without interupting it. But my electrical education/experience is limited, therefore can't tell if this will give me any trouble... or even problem to other related circuits.

Circuit #2 doesn't work because the relay isn't grounded, or at least you don't show a ground connection. There may be other relay connections I'm not aware of (some relays contain two "make" circuits).

Circuit #3 won't work. In order for the relay to energize the starter, the relay must route a different voltage source to the solenoid. As pictured, you still have the factory yellow wire connected to the starter solenoid.

You must open the yellow wire circuit at some convenient location as in circuit #2, then use this wire to energize the relay (the control circuit). Specifically, connect yellow wire to relay terminal 86. Terminal 85 goes to ground.

ID and locate another nearby voltage source (you're looking for a source other than the ignition switch). The large battery/alternator cable post on the solenoid is close and convenient. Connect a wire from this terminal to relay terminal 30, then continue this power circuit from relay terminal 87 to the solenoid (where the yellow wire was disconnected earlier).

However, I'm uncertain why the yellow wire continues to supply source voltage with the ignition switch in the ON position (should be 12 volts @ crank and 0 volts at all other positions) other than a faulty ignition switch. Are the wires connected to the switch correctly? Verify with a voltmeter. Terminal 50 (yellow wire) should only show source voltage in the crank position.

Sherwood

[3.2 CAB]

+1 with Sherwood about the yellow #50 wire should only have power when the key is in the "START" position only. Good luck!! Tony.

[rnln]

Paul,
you mean I will enter a loop? Oups.
Thanks!
Will you think the below circuit work without flaw?

Sherwood,
Oh, I forgot to draw the ground but gate 85 is connecting to ground.

"You must open the yellow wire circuit at some convenient location as in circuit #2, then use this wire to energize the relay (the control circuit). Specifically, connect yellow wire to relay terminal 86. Terminal 85 goes to ground."

This is the same as my circuit (2) and I have problem doing this. As I decribed, when yellow wire is disconnect off 14 pin connector, the front end of it will continuously put out 11.xx volts when key is at ON position. I connect this yellow wire back, everything back to normal (0 at ON position, and 11.xx at cranking). If anyone have a doubt, please test and please post result.

Tony,
yes, true. It is correct if everything is untouch (stock). If you disconnect the yellow wire off the 14 pin connector (or off the starter), the front end of this wire will always have 11.xx volts either when key is at ON position or when starting.

I don't want to add a hot start button. I just want to increase the voltage on the stock yellow wire to the max it can have.
--------------------------

Please evaluate my 4th circuit. Will it work without flaw?

[911pcars]

Find out why there's voltage in the yellow wire.

Sherwood

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Find out why there's voltage in the yellow wire.

Sherwood

+1

Check the yellow wire near the ignition switch. Your car may have a connector in the yellow wire in the trunk, under the cowel, where the wire loom exits the bulkhead from the interior. If it does, disconnect the connector and test the wire as it comes from the switch. If you get voltage at the switch or the connector when the switch is in the"run" position, it's likely a problem with the switch itself. Follow Sherwood's advice and find out why there is voltage in the yellow wire before you mess with relay circuits.

[rnln]

thanks guys, will try.