Should I buy a 911 that has been tracked? Help!
 

Hello, I am looking for my first Porsche. I found a 911 that I am very interested in buying however it has been used almost exclusively as a track car. It has been very well maintained but I am wondering if I should keep looking for one that has not seen track abuse.

I appreciate your feedback!

Regards

What year?

Are we talking a 2005 that was tracked for 2 years, or a 1978 that was tracked for 30 years?

A well maintained track car is a good car - better than an average street car with suspect maintenance. Guys who go the track often can afford to repair things.

It depends on what you're looking for. IMHO a car that has seen the track has been much more carefully cared for since the owner normally is more concerned with safety and the overall maintenance of the car. I looked at a couple of cars before I bought mine, low mileage and clean but the owners didn't have a clue as to what they owned, nor did they take as good of care of them like a tracked car would be cared for. Tracked cars in my opinion could be a good thing. Getting a good PPI would be required, as always. A street only car may have been driven more gently, but it may also have been neglected too.

Really need to know the year of the car, and a list of the mods that have been done to the car, to be able to discuss.

A 911 that has been tracked regularly and maintained really well is probably the best car you can find.

Have a ppi done.

Every car has it's own story, but driving 911s hard doesn't particularly stress them, if that is what you are asking. I myself like cars with some add ons, so a track car is a good candidate for me. Other people like a very stock car.

The thing is, a low mileage 911 that has been driven on short hops, and never really warmed up or had it's legs stretched can need a head stud or valve guides before 80K. A good higher mileage car with a track history could have had continuous maintenance and run like a champ for another 80 to 100K, with routine maintenance. In either case, a top end job could cost 5K, and a full rebuild 10K, a tranny or clutch 2K, shocks, brakes, etc. a couple of bucks, so a Pre Purchase inspection is a must.

A good 911 will hold its value and be easy to maintain. It will be a good driver from the day you get it. A poorly maintained 911 could cost you a few bucks to a lot of bucks right off the bat, leading you to question Porsches and your sanity on a daily basis.

Spend a little time getting to know these cars, and find a really good 911 mechanic in your area. There are a lot of 911s out there, so don't feel compelled to buy the first one you see, unless it has a gold plated provenance, and comes strongly reccomended. Even then, don't jump the gun. Good feelings can be very short lived. A good Porsche can last a lifetime, even on the track.

Track car is better assuming it's had maintenance and servicing. I agree that the average track car has more maintenance done to it and is therefore a better car. Most street cars are driven with service only done when there's an issue. A track car will most likely have had all wear items replaced.

In my experience tracking a car helps sorts it out. A car that has been tracked 2-3 times will only have the most serious issues brought to light (clutch, engine, bakes, etc). A car that's seen a season or two has had almost every nut and bolt touched.

first and foremost where in the hell can you drive the car at its full potential on the street??? pin it on a on-ramp, 120 for about a minute on the freeway?????

i wouldnt hesitate at all buying a "tracked car", i know its been driven to redline. thats what they were built for.

get a PPI and see whats up.

amazing thing about track......................after 10 minutes YOU WILL KNOW WHAT DOES AND DOESNT WORK. highway speeds are a mere fly turd to what the vehicles potential is all about.

I like crisps analysis regarding "sorting the car out." I think he is on to something. Others seem to confirm and I totally agree.

Diverdan

A track car should have lap times to back up the price.
But many times race cars are sold when owners get behind on service.
Track car paint can include sandblasted front ends.
Track car can also mean not street legal, wipers, turn signals, horn...
If you want a track car could be a good deal but if you want a cherry as the factory made it 911 then keep looking.
Post some photos, price, lap times.:)

As others have said, without knowing the car (year, type, etc) it is hard to make a recommendation. But, chances are someone who has taken their car to the track is probably very proactive in its maintenance and probably also has the records to back it up.

A tracked vs. non-tracked car isn't really an issue for me as long as I can see their service histories and get a PPI or poke around under the car.

I guess I am from the other camp....I have had both....my street car is just as well maintained if not better than my street/track car was. From pure cosmetics standpoint, most track cars are lacking....My current street only car is not a concourse contestant...but a very nice driver. In my opinion a well maintained Porsche is a well maintained Porsche. I have owned Porsches for over 30 years off and on....My best suggestion is buying a car from a Porsche enthusiast that knows about his car...preferrably one that does much of his own maintenance and a car that has complete documentation of that maintenance. Buying an older Porsche will cost you money...every year Porsche has its inherant issues. PPIs are great....but they are not a gaurantee. You might also want to find somebody close to you that is knowledgable about the particular year Porsche you are interested in and take them with you when looking at particular cars.

Depends on what youtr purpose is.
If yout are looking for a DD, a vehicle that has been tracked and taken care of will be fine or better then a garage queen. Most of the carbon woutld have been blown outt, fluids (oil, brake,tranny) changes more frequently and oil leaks taken care of before the tech inspection.

Mine was tracked by the previouts owner almost three years ago.

Has some of the usual road rash on the lower front valance and a few stone chips.

Like other have pointed out, check out the service history and have a shop perform the PPI.

Good luck:)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1225030314.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1225030422.jpg

I echo what all these guys are saying. A bunch of track time will certainly shake out what needs to be fixed. I assume in this case that "track car" means a car that's been gone over, maybe had some upgrades in suspension, maybe a little rough cosmetically both inside and out but otherwise sound. I typically park my track car between events with the track pads in it, the rubber marks on the hood and the tech stickers on the glass.

None of this I would consider abuse, but if you were considering a show car, this is the typical treatment we give our tracks cars here. There's a lot of events in our track season.

But, if you might visit the track one day, you may want to consider this car. I have seen the pattern here....buy an unmolested car, spend cubic dollars fixing all the deferred maintenance and then go the next step and turn it into a track car.

Figure where you are on the continuum. If I was to do it over, I would have bought a coupe and built a track car out of it...

This may have been pointed out already but what do you plan on using it for?

I have a well prepped track car that's suspension, wheel & tire combo, seats, rollbar and alignment setup make street driving it to work a pain in the bu*&. It's cosmetics are lacking as well. Sandlbasted front end. It also takes the brakes a bit of warm up to bite. But it's well maintained and I'd drive it across country if my kidneys could take it.

I also have a much more stock SC that's seen several track days but is my daily driver and also well maintained.

If you want a daily driver you'll take to the track occasionally don't buy someones track dedicated car with stiff torsion bars, race seats and roll bar. It may look cool and be well maintained but you'll regret it after an hour on a Sunday drive.

Jerry nailed it. Track or no track, what is the set up? If you plan on tracking about the same amount as the PO, then he saved you a lot of money if it's set up properly. If not, then your new ride could be a hard one.

That brown Targa is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. The PO (Charlie) bought a pristine car, spent a ton of $$ rebuilding it and upgrading it and then tracked it. I don't think he had any ideas of tracking until after he got it. I teased him since I never saw the roof off. :)

Honest answer: no. 911's are not like Ferrari's and Lamborghini's in that they were made in relatively HUGE numbers. If you don't have enough money for a better one just wait it out, when the time comes you will have enough for the right one. If its simply the car you like, but you aren't tracking it, get one that is stock and keep it that way. If you are tracking it then I guess you know the answer but I also don't think you would have made this post.

First and foremost, thanks for the great feedback!!!

Some additional details:
*1987 911, with 147K miles
*Has 1979 911 Turbo brakes, steel lines and '79 turbo flares
*18" kenesis rims, new tires
*Adjustable swaybars & struts, shocks etc (suspension is done & done right)
*Has the poly bronze bushings etc
*B&B exhuast
*Custome air intake
*Has been expertly maintained; top end refresh at 100k miles
*Engine looks nice and dry. No leaks at all
*Recaro seats - no original seats , but I realize that I would not be buying this 911 for originality. It would be because I personally like how it looks and it will run great for a long time
*Interior needs work but something I could redo myself
*Headlights are cracked figured I could replace the H5s for H4s for about $500
*Rear rotors probably need to be replaced
*Front are okay but need to prob redo the springs etc in the pad because they are making noise.
*No A/C but all the lines are still in and capped off. It will cost my to replace the condenser and compressor but I was planning on doing the a/c upgrade just not right away.

The last major thing I need to weigh out is that the car has major road rash so if I buy it I would definitely re-paint at some. I mean from two car lengths away, the paint looks great, but from closer it has road rash on the front and fender flares from the tracks.

So I guess the decision i need to make is whether to buy this car and worry about paint later but everything else is pretty much done with the car (suspension etc)

Or keep looking and find a cleaner car and do the turbo flares myself and the supension, rims etc etc.

The guy is asking for 20K

I have been looking around for the past several months and I know there are a lot of cars out there for that price range. I figured I would make him an offer taking into consideration the things that I need to replace or fix.

Could someone give me a rough est of what it would cost to paint a car? I know pricing can vary depending how nice but I am looking for a rough idea of a decent same color re-paint.

Thanks so much gang!

Oops, left out a couple more details: I intend for this car to be my Daily Driver. Me and a more knowledgeable friend checked it out and drove it. He believes it's a solid car. It rides surprisingly smooth on the freeway considering the suspension set up and lowered stance. So I see no issues with me driving it to work and back everyday.

Whereas currently I do not have plans to take the car to a track, I am sure down the line and as my time is free'd up I would consider going ;) For decision making purposes I would have to lean towards me ust using it as a daily driver.

Thanks!

Gerry

I would be hesitant to use that car as a daily driver, just because of age and mileage. Having said that my 84 has more miles and years on and it is totally reliable.

And I would be more concerned about the maintenance and 'fixing up costs' than the track issue. Occasional tracking is of no concern to me.

But you could easily have $5,000 in fix-ups on that car before you know it. At $20,000 I would really lean towards looking elsewhere. That does not sound like a 'deal' in this economy.

$20k seems a bit high from the description.

Have you checked this one out?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/433266-immaculate-row-85-carrera-3-2-coupe-ca-bar-sticker-black-black.html

I would not buy that car from your description unless I was looking for a track car, you can buy a real nice daily driver for 20K today the way the Porsche market is, just take you time and find the right car for you.

A halfway decent paint job can start at $5,000 and go up from their if you have other issues (rust, weather stripping, glass etc). Interior can cost as well??? I'd keep shopping, you will know when you have found the right Porsche. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1225043630.jpg

done right?
If it's got 3 degrees of camber for r-rated tires your street tires are going to burn off the inside edges in 10k miles.
Car sounds 90% track/10% street, and no close ratio gear box?
Size t bars?
All that hot rod stuff is little to no gain when street/canyon carving.
The black one is a much better date car.:cool:
Heater, wiper, radio not important?

bump for a cheaper race car.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/430340-poc-v4-pca-ii-car-sale.html

Something that nobody seems to have mentioned: What do you mean by "a track car"? A racecar? Or a car that goes to lots of track days and DEs? Big difference. I suspect you mean the latter, since I can't imagine anybody actually racing a car that can be sold for street use. And track-day/DE use varies. Certainly you can abuse a 911 during track days, trying to speed-shift and red-haze stuff like that, but a lot of us treat our cars with relative care during track days. If nothing else, those of us without trailers know we have to drive them home or bum a ride...

Sounds like a fair amount of money was spent to make it handle better ON THE TRACK and little was spent to make it a cherry street ride. Might be reasonable if one has the same goals for the car. Turbo flares are cool on an RS or a turbo, otherwise who needs the boy racer stuff on the street! For a street ride, I'd say move on.. IMnotsoHO

Diverdan

The car I am looking at is not a total track car. It's street legal, the guy put the cat back on and got it smog checked. It the type of car you can drive to the track with and it's set up more for like autocross. It has the battery kill switch etc.

Let me ask you guys this. How much do you believe is a reasonable offer. I agree 100% that 20k is too much as there is just way too much competition at this price range. I have seen true track cars for less than 15K and super clean stock 911s for 18-21K. This car is not super clean nor is it quite a "track" car.

Yes, some of the components this guy has put on the car are expensive: $6K custom Kineses rims, Porsche turbo calipers,rotors, flares, exhaust, intake, new and custom mapped ECU, fully adjustable suspension, etc but it is hard to expect to build that into the price especially in this market.

What would you offer if you were seriously considering the car?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1225112162.jpg

Here's a picture. Thanks for the support!

The "thing" hanging off the front (and rear bumper) is a toe strap. Most of you will already know that but I could not figure it out until I saw the car in person LOL

Track cars live a hard life. I purchased a previously tracked 911 with many of the same goodies you've got, also very well maintained. When we pulled apart the rear suspension we found cracking on the frame we needed to weld up, etc. This was somewhat expected, and I bought the car because it had most of the parts I would have added anyway at a fraction of the cost of buying them new. Would you really want to add all the parts he's got on this car if you bought the base car? I suspect many of them would be overkill for what you're doing, but you're paying a premium for them and you're getting a car that's been more abused than a street car. I think this should go to someone who also wants to track/ DE it, and you should find a clean street car...

Update - Car was tracked about 6 weekends per year. Received detailed maintenance history for last three years...

147k miles?... umm... mine is also an 87, has wide body, and bigger wheels too, but a lot lower on mileage, around 70k+. I won't sell it for $20k even if the market price comes below it. If I sell it, I would think it should worth at least $25k or more, just a thought. So, do you think 70k miles worth $5k or more? I would think it worth more. Remember, the engine is the most important part in a car. Just a very personal thought.

Wrong. THe brakes alone are worth $4-5K. The wheels are worth another $1.5-$1.7K.

The fact is that track cars are maintained better. I track my car all the time and have replaced all kinds of parts just to be safe (Before they have failed). On a street car, guys wait until things break. That said, I personally won't make this my sole daily driver. These cars are not nearly as safe as a modern car with Crumple zones, ABS and Airbags.

+100

And I wouldn't make any sweeping generalizations. I know my car is mechanically better being tracked. I know of several cars that cosmetically are in great shape and are tracked. Each car is an individual. Each car considered needs to be looked at independently. Get a PPI on any car you consider. I'd rather buy a car that's been tracked routinely than one's that's sat.

Update #2: Went through the service records. Many of you guys are right. LOT's of money spent checking every single item on this car. Bolt's, bearing's bushings, rotors, checking lines, mounts (re-enforcing mounts), bearing's brakes list goes on and on. The car has "Charlie" swaybars which are real hard to come by these days too. From 2005 to 2008 I totaled up $26K. This includes the Intake Manifold being ported and polished and many more items over and above just routine maintenance. I saw from the work orders that this car was thoroughly inspected and prepped each time before a track weekend. It's actually stated in the work orders.

This $26K does not even count the 930 metal fender flares/body work/paint nor the rims and brand new tires. It's shocking that there is easily $40K spent on the car and that does not even include the actual price of the car.

This is all good news. However remember to consider how much of that work is actually valuable to you. Charlie bars are very cool, but complete overkill for a street car. Meanwhile things you do care about (paint) will need to be worked on at significant expense. Maybe you could sell some bits to offset the costs?

Which of the parts of that car do you really like/ would you buy if you were building the car yourself?

If $ was not a limiting factor I would love to do all the suspension work. Realistically though, I could never afford, in the near term, to spend that kind of cash on suspension work.

I really love the wide fenders/ turbo look and if I were to buy a "Stock" 911 I would want at some point to spend the $ to get metal flares, do the body work and paint. That alone is going to be costly though. I estimate 6K - 8K???

So the way I see it, if I buy this car I will get all the suspension work and I will just need to re-do the paint at some point down the line. I say down the line because I can more than live with how the paint currently is and be happy. I could spend time and some $ fixing smaller cosmetic things.

Anyone have a wide body 3.2 911 for sale in CA? That could be an alternative too :) But I have had a hard time finding one that is not salvage title or a factory wide body which commands a much higher price.