Advice on Sports Car to buy

[pulliamjs]

I'm not a Porsche owner, but am intrigued with buying an older Porsche for fun. Heck, I'm so impressed by this forum, I'd probably buy one just because of it!

I'm looking for a second car. Here are my criteria, in priority order:

Must haves: 2 seater, prefer convertible, 5 speed.

Important:
- Beat my Audi A6 from 0 - 60. My 2.7T does 0 - 60 in 6.0 seconds. Can't justify buying a 2nd fun car if it can't beat the A6.
- Great handling. I mean I want to feel one with this car. I want tight steering. Great cornering. I don't mind a bumpy ride.
- Style. Love the older 911s (pre'74), the 356s. I actually like the bright trim on these cars. I dislike whaletails, turbolook.
- Size. I'm 6' 4". Need to be able to fit in it.
- Lineage. At the risk of getting flamed, I want a German car, would settle for another European or American model (not a fan of 'vette or mustang, though). Don't want an Asian.
- Easy to work on. Need to be able to get parts. Prefer NA if possible.

Budget: the cheaper the better. I really want this car to be fun to drive and use it as a project to work on. While I can afford a more expensive car, I want to get my hands dirty first, learn, then graduate to something better. I'd like to be all in (including car and repairs) for $15K or less.

I would love a nice '72 911S, but so would everyone else, from what I gather. Maybe a 911T? I'm thinking a 356B could be cool, too.

Any recommendations (Porsch and non-Porsche)?

[masraum]

If you want a pre-74 car to be faster than 6 to 60 then you will need to buy a modified car. The early cars (and later cars to for that matter) weren't designed for rocket like accelleration. They were more designed to carry momentum through the corners. You can have a ton of fun without these cars without the neck-snapping acceleration. You may want to keep an open mind or at least try a 3.0 or 3.2L car. They still retain some of the raw feel/soul of the early cars, are cheaper and easier to work on than the 90 and up cars and can come the closest or even surpass your 6s benchmark. Otherwise if you are stuck on the early cars you may want to drop a 3.6L into an early tub. If you want a 356 than beats 6s to 60 then you will probably need to make a radical car.

I could be wrong, but these are my thoughts

[nostatic]

For $15K, there really is no way you can get a 911 that will beat your A6 0-60 unless you happen to find a modded race car. HOWEVER, almost whatever 911 you buy will *feel* faster, especially in the twisties. While the A6 2.7TQ is quite a nice ride, you will be amazed at how much more visceral and cat-like the 911 feels.

For a bomb-proof car in that price range, you should check out SCs ('78-'83). Early cars can be had for under $15K, but a stock T would probably not impress you on the power/torque front. A nice E would be closer, but finding a good one (rust free, well maintained) is tough. An S in your price range would likely be a pretty rough car.

As far as convertible, you've got to go to '83 and newer unless you consider a targa good enough to quality as topless. In that case, most any year will do. At 6'4", you're near the limit for a coupe. I'm 6'1" and fit fine, but only have a few inches head clearance. '85 and newer have seats that sit a bit lower.

But if you really want to go topless, and want raw, fun speed, you might want to check out a 550 replica (www.beckspyder.com). These cars are supposed to be mucho fun to drive. Don't let the low horsepower fool you...they are light and quick.

[Tspringer]

There is hope, just keep your eyes open.

I just bought a '69 911S with a Supertec built 2.6 hotrod MFI engine. It has all the right case mods, RSR sprint cams
(it idles at 1100 and is a tad lumpy), 9.5:1 Mahle P/C's, lightweight flywheel and racing clutch, SSI 's with Dansk SS muffler. The Supertec guys say it should have 220bhp or more. The car has a power sunroof but no other options. The suspension is fully rebuilt with larger T-bars, new shocks, all new poly bushings, turbo tie rods. Rebuilt S brakes.... mechanically this car is new. Paint is decent and the interior is overall excellent. This is the fastest 911 I have ever owned, much quicker acceleration than my 993, particularly from 30mph to 100mph. I paid $15k. It came with extra wheels and the original 2.0S engine in good shape.

Keep looking and you can find a great, fast and modified early 911. I strontly recommend it. Its the closest thing to a go-cart I have ever driven on the street and the noise/power is great. I cant wait to get it on the track!

[Early_S_Man]

A '72 or '73 911E Targa meets your criteria with a 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds, stock! There were no true convertibles prior to 1983, but the Targa is an inspiring, enjoyable compromise in clear weather!

The many early cars with transplanted or upgraded 2.7 MFI or Weber-equipped engines and 'S' or 'E' or 'Solex' cams are the best bets for a performance-oriented buyer. CIS engines lack the responsivenes of early high-revving engines, and can be very expensive to maintain. 3.0 engine transplants with Webers are good, too, but, be wary of stock CIS pistons, as they limit cam choices! Also, be very careful of 2.7 CIS '911S' claims ... they are not the same as early, pre-74, high-revving 'S' engines, though many sellers adamantly claim the right to refer to the 'badge' the car came with ... when referring to engine parts and specs.

[anthony]

For a $15K budget I'd look around for a nice SC for $12-13K and then budget a few thousand for maintenance, refurbishing, and upgrading.

If you are really stuck on getting a p-car, buy a 914 with a 3.0L six conversion. You will rule the road.

[pulliamjs]

Thanks for the ideas. I am willing to trade off acceleration (to a point) for handling.

[Langers]

Im the same height as you, so fitting into cars will always be a problem. See if there is any way possible you could fit into a Lotus 7 replica. There are dozens of different companies making them, and they fit all of your criteria.

[jyl]

If by "two seater" you mean "only two seats" then of the production Porsches only the 914 qualifies. I imagine a 914 could be modified to a sub 6.0 sec 0-60 time for less than $15K all in (e.g. buy a 914/4 and make a 914/6).

Assuming a 2+2 is OK, then from an objective standpoint -- in other words, disregarding personal opinions on styling or coolness -- the Porsche that best fits your requirements is the 951 aka 944 Turbo.

-- You can get a late 80's 951 in very good condition for $10K. With patience and good bargaining, probably a good bit less.

-- They will beat a 6.0 sec 0-60 time and thus are as fast or faster (in a straight line) than any stock, normally aspirated 911 that you can get for under $20K (or more) -- and with a few thousand dollars in mods they are in 930 territory. The HP/$ ratio for mods to a 951 is better than for a NA 911.

-- For public road purposes, they handle as well or better than any stock 911/930. This comment will surely get me flamed, but based on everything I've read and heard from people who know both cars, the 944/951 will get down a twisty public road (blind corners, no runouts, random SUVs, etc) faster with less driver effort and fear than a 911/930 of equivalent power. This doesn't mean the 911/930 driver will be having less "fun", but I did say this pick was from an objective standpoint.

-- The 911 is a more modern car, with heating, ventilation, A/C, and other cockpit amenities closer to what modern cars have. Dunno about a 6'4" driver, although I suspect custom seat rails or at worst a racing seat would solve any clearance problems.

It might be worth browsing the 944 forum. Also someone recently posted a 1988 article comparing a 951 to a 930.

I looked hard at the 951 before buying my 911 (1988 3.2). It was pretty clear that the 951 was the better choice in terms of price, performance, and practicality. I ended up buying a 911 anyway because it seemed like the better choice for looks, fun, and sound. I figured I'm not racing the thing or hauling groceries, I'm enjoying it.

[kepperly]

6 FOOT 4 INCHS
0-60MPH IN UNDER 6 SECONDS
UNDER 15,000.00
CONVERTABLE
WHOA MAN THIS ISN'T LEAVE IT TO JEANIE.

IF YOU LIKE TO GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY AND BUILD A
QUICK CAR TRY A 356 SPEEDSTER KIT WITH A 2180CC
THEY DO HAUL ASS AND YOU'D LOVE BUILDING IT. OR
I RECENTLY SAW A TURBO BECK 550 THAT WAS THE
" BOMB" TO 100MPH. IT EMBARASSED A Z06 FOR A BLOCK.

KEITH

87 SLANT NOSE CARRERA CABRIOLET

[jhugh]

Ha! I had the same requirement when I was considering a 911 - it had to beat my wife's modded A4 1.8TQ, which used to do 0-60 in low sixes. So, I'll tell ya - my 1984 Carrera beat the living cr@p out of the A4. And now that I've done some mods, it will positively KILL your A6. In acceleration, but especially in handling. This is the amazing joy of a 911. There's nothing else like it. Your A6, for all it's torque and turbo neck-snap, will feel like a ridiculously heavy, numb and bumbling blimp once you've been behind the wheel of a 911 and have learned to drive it (which does take a while). You will be amazed that you've denied yourself the pleasure of a rear-wheel drive car for so long, especially one with the extra weight of the engine all the way in the back. And the sound!

A 911 is made like God made jackrabbits... all the power and weight is in the back. The front end is light. Both ends steer. And the thing goes like hell!

Anyway, as a former Audi owner, though I love the marque, I now take special pleasure in smoking those cars. Get a 3.2L, make a couple mods if they haven't already been done (chip, cat bypass, sport muffler). It'll kick your A6's a$$.

Cheers,

[GregS]

IMHO, I think you'd be pleased with an early E or S, although I'm not real sure how close you could get given your budget. If you do start a search, beware of rust. Good luck and have fun with whatever you decide to do.

Also, just a comment on the height question...

I've not found it to be an issue. I'm 6'4", roughly 235, and perfectly proportioned . I've owned an early 911 coupe and a 914 and haven't had any trouble with either head or leg room using stock seats at the stock heights. YMMV if you use aftermarket seats...

[pwd72s]

Budget & criteria listed? 'Vette. Just be prepared to learn to chew Copenhagen snuff. Without opening the can. Also, look for blonde girlfiriends who have had enhancement surgery. There are worse lives.......

[mskala]

Originally posted by Early_S_Man
A '72 or '73 911E Targa meets your criteria with a 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds, stock!

Source for this number? Sounds a bit difficult to believe.
Mark S.
'70 914-6

[dougcl]

You can't get an open 356 in your price range.

[James_TX]

Im 6'4 and fit with no problem in a '77.

[Early_S_Man]

Mark S,

The 1972 Car and Driver test numbers for the 911E are just as believeable as current numbers cited for the Audi A6!

[layzee]

Saved. Thanks Warren

[island911]

“way down the option list – titanium connecting rods well worth their $903.50 price”
How cool is that!?

Thanks Warren!

[speeder]

Thanks once again, Warren. Interesting statement, " at almost 2500 lbs., 911s are fairly heavy". I have said this before on the forum; the 911 did not "lose its purpose" sometime after '73, they were ALWAYS considered luxurious Grand Touring/sports cars w/ great performance. 2450 lbs. was not a light sports car in those days, it only seems like it in comparison to modern cars. And every concievable option was available, A/C, power windows/ sunroof, semi-automatic trans, etc.