short shift am I missing something

[dfink]

The shifter in the 84 didn't seem right so I took it apart and found what appears to be an attempt to convert to a short shift. The shift lever itself is shorter. The pivot has been flipped over so the lever sits where the original did in relation to the reverse gate. Problem is the reverse / 5th springs and the A shaped plate no longer line up correctly because the pivot was flipped. Am I missing some trick to this or is it just screwed up. I put a post up to buy a stock shift lever because that is the only way I can see to fix it.
I could modify the A bracket that guides the springs by moving the horizontal part of the A but would have to cut it and reweld and I don't know how strong that would be.
Any ideas..........

[911pcars]

Some pics would be helpful. Can you post?

The standard "pivot box", the part the lever sits in, can be installed in any orientation. If it's a factory short shifter, the hole for the pivot pin is offset so the pivot sits higher. The commensurate shift lever is longer below the pivot hole by the same amount the pivot pin moves upward.

Hope this helps, but a pic would be interesting.

Sherwood

[dfink]

I can try a picture but my picture taking is legendary on this board. If I understand what you are saying is the stock shifter has the pivot point centered so you could flip and still be the same. This doesn't hold true for my 85 has a stock shifter and the pivot is not centered. On the stock 85 the pivot is a pyramid shape with the peak pointing down and the flat side up. On the 84 the pivot is flipped with the peak pointing up and the flat side down. This makes the arm align with the reverse / 5th gate but puts the pivot point higher in relation to the return springs. On the stock shifter the pivot pin sits in the hole of the "A" bracket. This allows enough room for the shifter to move free in 1-4 but kicks it out of reverse/5th. With the pivot point sitting so high. When the pin is in the hole of the "A" the shift lever is heavily sprung to the 1st/2nd side and get really heavy as you go to the right. Does the factory short shift kit include a different "A" bracket.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by dfink

I can try a picture but my picture taking is legendary on this board. If I understand what you are saying is the stock shifter has the pivot point centered so you could flip and still be the same. This doesn't hold true for my 85 has a stock shifter and the pivot is not centered. On the stock 85 the pivot is a pyramid shape with the peak pointing down and the flat side up. On the 84 the pivot is flipped with the peak pointing up and the flat side down. This makes the arm align with the reverse / 5th gate but puts the pivot point higher in relation to the return springs. On the stock shifter the pivot pin sits in the hole of the "A" bracket. This allows enough room for the shifter to move free in 1-4 but kicks it out of reverse/5th. With the pivot point sitting so high. When the pin is in the hole of the "A" the shift lever is heavily sprung to the 1st/2nd side and get really heavy as you go to the right. Does the factory short shift kit include a different "A" bracket.

On a '85, the factory used what is referred to as a factory semi-short shifter (FSeSS) - it provides about a 10% reduction in throw distance from gear to gear. That and the regular factory short shifter (FSS [24%]) both use offset holes in the pivot box - the FSS pivot box has more offset. In both cases, when properly installed, the flat edge of the pivot box faces downward. The FSS pivot box has a pyramid shaped top edge. The FSeSS merely has an offset hole (install with the offset upward). The shift levers themselves are matched to their pivot boxes to provide the correct geometry.

It sounds like the pivot box is upside down which I believe is the crux of your problem. This also has the effect of positioning the entire shift lever (and ball end) lower than normal. This incorrect location will strain the shift tube bushing which doesn't expect any side force as the tube slides fore and aft during shifting. Did you have to use the mount bolts to pull the shift housing down against the tunnel?

The "A" bracket and springs are also unique for each shifter. Here are some pages that might help ID what you have. Unfortunately, the FSeSS isn't covered, but you might be able to extrapolate from the levers shown. Let's hope the PO didn't mix and match shift housing components.

http://seinesystems.com/ShiftType.htm

Sherwood

[dfink]

thanks for trying to help me figure this out. It helps that I have my 85 still sitting here to compare.

I am afraid mix and match is exactly what happened. If I install what I have with the flat of the pivot facing up then the pivot point is lowered too far. Also the gate guide on the shift lever winds up being below the lock out plate. If I assemble with the pivot flipped i.e. the flat side down then everything lines up except the "A" bracket for the return springs. It appears everything was changed except for the "A" bracket. Or only the lever was changed.

[dfink]

Some pictures of the parts.

[dfink]

comparing Sherwood's pictures it looks like a target shift lever but I think everything else is stock. So perhaps they put in the target lever, flipped the pivot to raise the ball but didn't have the other parts. Does it look like I could just get a factory shift lever to get things back going.

[dfink]

Well took another look and did some measuring. It looks like the factory short shift kit. The lever matches, the pivot measures right but the "A" bracket is not right. I will check to see if they are available. Might just have to buy a different shifter. I have seen several in the for sale around $100. Didn't mention earlier that in order to make work what was in it. The pivot pin was put in backwards so it didn't contact the "A" bracket. It worked but had no kick out of 5th /reverse.

[911pcars]

It looks like the shifter lever and pivot box are correct for a factory short shifter. Confirm by measuring the center-to-center distance from pivot hole to ball end. However, the A-bracket is the standard part (not FSS). That appears to be the source of the interference. I can't tell about the springs. FSS springs are slightly shorter. Measure and I can compare with the parts I have.

The carrier plate and the rubber buffer under it are standard parts for any 915 shifter.

Once all the parts are identified, the correct A-bracket + other parts can be ordered from PCNA.

Hope this helps.
Sherwood
www.SeineSystems.com

[Porsche_monkey]

You appear to have the 'auto-focus' feature enabled. Please turn it off so we can be sure who took the pictures. I find it very confusing when I see dfink and clear photo's in the same thread.

[dfink]

Originally Posted by Porsche_monkey

You appear to have the 'auto-focus' feature enabled. Please turn it off so we can be sure who took the pictures. I find it very confusing when I see dfink and clear photo's in the same thread.

I borrowed my son's camera

[Porsche_monkey]

I see no genetic link.

[dfink]

He's adopted..... really.... He gets all the good stuff and I am stuck with a 24 year old car and a crappy camera.

[dlague]

You could buy a new short shift kit from Pelican and all the moving parts are new. Including springs etc.....

I think it costs 195.00 and goes to 1986

[dlague]

Before putting all this together, be aware that the shift rod is brazed into lower section. I had this braze let go 2 days after installing the short shift kit. I would have the shaft properly welded to the lower shift pivot and ball piece before putting everything back together.

If you have access to a tig welder it is a very easy job.

[911pcars]

"...be aware that the shift rod is brazed into lower section."

Actually, the factory used/usess what turns out to be a limited life epoxy to attach the shift lever pieces. Yes, it's a good idea to make this permanent with a couple of tack welds. Brazing would be more or less permanent as well.

This and other assembly suggestions here:
http://seinesystems.com/ShiftHousBluPrint.htm

Sherwood