Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   My ongoing UGLY ENGINE CLEANUP thread (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/448042-my-ongoing-ugly-engine-cleanup-thread.html)

Gogar 12-25-2008 07:31 PM

My ongoing UGLY ENGINE CLEANUP thread
 
With the help of some very nice new friends a while back, I got my dirty, nasty, stinky engine out of my car for cleanup/ leak fixin', powder-coating fun. I just wanted to start a thread and show some of my pics and ask questions and get advice from anyone who has a look. I've been doing a lot of reading and I'm going pretty slow. I've been doing a lot of cleaning and I'm just about ready to get parts back from powdercoating and put stuff back together and do seals and gaskets and return tubes and yadda yadda.

One thing I should have done was hosed it off BEFORE I started taking crap off. :( Live and learn. All the cleaning has been by hand with a scotch brite and brake cleaner and carb cleaner and degreaser and stuff. I won't be getting anywhere near this thing with a hose now.

If you see something troubling along the way, please let me know.

I had fun taking this messy thing apart.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230265384.jpg

I tried for quite some time to get the injectors out, and after I realized I didn't really have to, I gave up for now. The injectors on a 73.5 CIS motor are not a part of the intake runner, so I didn't have to take them out to send the runners to powdercoat.

Taking the CIS off was fun, there were some things that WERE NOT hooked up.

What's this that wasn't hooked up, right on the back of the CIS?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230265462.jpg

Funny, the standoff/bracket that goes up from the throttle linkage plate and holds the whole CIS system steady - was just lying on top of the engine :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230265548.jpg

Here's a question: at about 2PM on this fan shroud there's a hole that looks like it wants to have an air line hooked up to it. Should it - and where does the other end go?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230265751.jpg


Thanks in advance!!!!!! All the pics from here on should be PRETTY. VERY PRETTY.

Poor-sche Lover 12-25-2008 07:50 PM

The electrical plug is your cold-start valve, I think. I don't know about the hole in the shroud.

HarryD 12-25-2008 08:23 PM

I would guess that the hole at 2 o'clock is to supply air to the carbon canister as part of the evaporative emmisions control system.

This is how it is hooked in (assuming it is a 73.5):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1155774730.jpg
© Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.

1. Expansion Chamber
2. Vent Chamber
3. Activated charcoal container
4. Engine fan upper shrouding
5. Pressure line from fan to activated charcoal container
6. Purging line from activated charcoal container to engine air cleaner.



For a bit later car, the setup looks like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1155823838.jpg
© Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.


1 – Fuel tank
2 – Expansion chamber
3 – Activated charcoal filter
4 – Cooling fan upper shroud with hose connector
5 – Hose from cooling fan to activated charcoal filter
6 – Hose from activated charcoal filter to engine air filter
7 – Engine air filter
8 – Return hose connecting fuel tank with expansion chamber



thanks Grady! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/299053-tank-ventilation-mfi-diagrams.html

Gogar 12-25-2008 08:39 PM

Wow that's a great thread Harry! I think I missed it because I was searching for something to hook up to the CIS instead of the canister stuff.

None of my canister stuff was hooked up, the lines were just hanging there. I'm probably going to get it out of there.

HarryD 12-25-2008 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4380073)
Wow that's a great thread Harry! I think I missed it because I was searching for something to hook up to the CIS instead of the canister stuff.

None of my canister stuff was hooked up, the lines were just hanging there. I'm probably going to get it out of there.

Gogar:

Errr.. don't do that...

Your gas tank will need to vent gasoline fumes (when filling or as the tank naturally "breathes"). The vapor system is there to keep YOU from breathing them or accidentally setting your car on fire.

Gogar 12-25-2008 09:01 PM

Ok errr . . . I guess that was just an ASSumption of mine. There sure are a lot of "canister removal" threads out there.

Is there a proper way to vent the tank -without- using the complete charcoal canister system? Mine was purposely disconnected by -someone.

Thank you!

greg bradbury 12-25-2008 09:02 PM

That Plug
 
If the plug at the is at the back of the CIS body I think you will find that it is the cut off connection so that the fuel pump only runs if the engine is running. If its disconnected the pump will run all the time which is not the best as the risk of a fire is greater.

Regards,
Greg.

Gogar 12-25-2008 09:15 PM

I think "Cold Start Valve" is the
winner.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230271930.gif

Greg, I'm wrong a lot, but I'm pretty sure that the fuel pump ran all the time in 73.5.

That connector is similar though, to the one right behind the sensor plate that I think you're talking about, but not on THIS engine.

HarryD 12-25-2008 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4380100)
I think "Cold Start Valve" is the
winner.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230271930.gif

Greg, I'm wrong a lot, but I'm pretty sure that the fuel pump ran all the time in 73.5.

That connector is similar though, to the one right behind the sensor plate that I think you're talking about, but not on THIS engine.


My fuel pump always runs.

HarryD 12-25-2008 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4380090)
Ok errr . . . I guess that was just an ASSumption of mine. There sure are a lot of "canister removal" threads out there.

Is there a proper way to vent the tank -without- using the complete charcoal canister system? Mine was purposely disconnected by -someone.

Thank you!


Gogar,

You are correct. See what the guys with the Fuel Cells do.

RWebb 12-25-2008 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4380090)

Is there a proper way to vent the tank -without- using the complete charcoal canister system? Mine was purposely disconnected by -someone.

Thank you!

- not really

- if you do rip it out, I'll be glad to take it off your hands

HarryD 12-26-2008 12:28 AM

Try this thread for some ideas: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?p=2760216&highlight=fuel+tank+vent# post2760216

Winter 12-26-2008 09:44 AM

I missed the engine drop, but my offer to try to be on hand for the reinstall still stands depending upon my work schedule. Cool thread, keep me posted.

---

Tom '75 Targa ("stinky")

Gogar 12-27-2008 04:10 PM

Thanks for the info, you guys. Maybe I should keep it in there and hook it up correctly or something. :eek:

Here's some more interesting stuff:

Do I NOT have an "idiot light" switch up here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426090.jpg

Because it's HERE: :confused:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426123.jpg


Also: Can someone tell me about these OIL RETURN TUBES?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426241.jpg

All four tubes were leaking on each end. I was going to take them out with the "SMASH AND BEND AND CUT" method, but a funny thing happened. When I slid the circlip into the middle of each tube and got on it with some vice grips, they came RIGHT OUT. Total time - 10 seconds for each tube.

Are these some kind of older-style collapsible return tube or something?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426389.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426407.jpg

I was excited to get the tubes out, because 1. I'm going to do the cooling tin mod and 2. I need a little room to get the end of the LONG oil line off.

The big nut is stuck, and the fitting that goes into the case wants to come out with the line. Any suggestions? It's soaking in some PB blaster right now.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426586.jpg
SmileWavySmileWavy

al lkosmal 12-27-2008 04:33 PM

gogar,
That's the oil temperature sensor that you're pointing at. The canister like thing above and to the right of it is the oil pressure sender. It appears that there is a bolt installed in the oil pressure switch (idiot light) position.

regards,

Al

Gogar 12-27-2008 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al lkosmal (Post 4382610)
gogar,
That's the oil temperature sensor that you're pointing at. The canister like thing above and to the right of it is the oil pressure sender. It appears that there is a bolt installed in the oil pressure switch (idiot light) position.

Okay, thank you. I always get it mixed up in my head with the thermotime switch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230428400.jpg

HarryD 12-27-2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4382571)
Thanks for the info, you guys. Maybe I should keep it in there and hook it up correctly or something. :eek:

Here's some more interesting stuff:

Do I NOT have an "idiot light" switch up here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426090.jpg

Because it's HERE: :confused:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426123.jpg

In my 73.5, which looks like that area, there is no idiot light, only oil temperature and pressure. Also, the 73.5 does not have the thermotime sensor.

Gogar 12-27-2008 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryD (Post 4382667)
Also, the 73.5 does not have the thermotime sensor.

:confused::confused: Well I can't imagine what it is then . . . . That's where they go when there is one, right? And thermotime switch is listed in the 69-73 catalog section.

Thanks!SmileWavy

gsmith660 12-27-2008 05:21 PM

+1 that is a thermotime switch since it looks like you have CIS then it is logical that you would have one I guess.

HarryD 12-27-2008 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmith660 (Post 4382693)
+1 that is a thermotime switch since it looks like you have CIS then it is logical that you would have one I guess.

In the 73.5 you use a Hand throttle to start the car and set the idle as the car warms up. Later, Porsche, added the thermotime circuit to eliminate the hand throttle system.

I wonder if Gogar has a later timing chain cover and the thermotime switch is acting as a plug for the hole.

Gogar,

Does you car have a hand throttle between the seats? It looks like the heater lever but is black and will be on the left side of the handbrake.

Also, be aware that the 73.5 engine has some items that are unique to that engine.

Gogar 12-27-2008 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryD (Post 4382722)
In the 73.5 you use a Hand throttle to start the car and set the idle as the car warms up. Later, Porsche, added the thermotime circuit to eliminate the hand throttle system.

I wonder if Gogar has a later timing chain cover and the thermotime switch is acting as a plug for the hole.

Gogar,

Does you car have a hand throttle between the seats? It looks like the heater lever but is black and will be on the left side of the handbrake.

Yes, it does have a hand throttle, and it did work.

The thermotime switch did have a wire hooked up to it, that it zip-tied onto the harness and (IIRC) went up to the CSV behind the intake boot.

HarryD 12-27-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4382730)
Yes, it does have a hand throttle, and it did work.

The thermotime switch did have a wire hooked up to it, that it zip-tied onto the harness and (IIRC) went up to the CSV behind the intake boot.


Intersting. I wonder iof some one wired the thermo time switch to activate the cold start valve. This is not stock. you can check the 1973.5 diagrams here to verify.

In my car, you pull the hand throttle up all the way to start. When you do this, two things happen: You get a very high starting rpm; and it closes a microswitch that provides power to the cold start valve. Power is only on the microswitch when you crank the engine as the power source is the same one that tells the starter motor to crank.

gsmith660 12-27-2008 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryD (Post 4382722)
In the 73.5 you use a Hand throttle to start the car and set the idle as the car warms up. Later, Porsche, added the thermotime circuit to eliminate the hand throttle system.

I wonder if Gogar has a later timing chain cover and the thermotime switch is acting as a plug for the hole.

Gogar,

Does you car have a hand throttle between the seats? It looks like the heater lever but is black and will be on the left side of the handbrake.

Also, be aware that the 73.5 engine has some items that are unique to that engine.

Good point it isnt hooked up soooo! oops should have read a little farther.

86911cab 12-29-2008 08:57 AM

Cant wait to see it all clean and powdercoated!!

Gogar 01-07-2009 10:23 AM

Wow
 
:eek::eek:

I'm soooooo glad I took this out. Probably about 2-3 pounds of gooky, oily dirt up behind that sucker. It's gonna be a looker when it comes back, I hope!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231356122.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231356138.jpg


Here's the real reason: See that grey-black oily booger? That's about 1/4 of the stuff I dug out with my finger when I took off the nut next to the drain plug.

Thanks for the glove, Bill.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231356208.jpg


SmileWavySmileWavy

canamfan 01-07-2009 10:28 AM

Wow! I can hardly wait to see how it's going to look all cleaned/painted/prepped up!! Keep up the work,good luck.

1982911SCTarga 01-07-2009 10:51 AM

Gogar, nice work!

Don't feel bad about not pre-cleaning the engine before you removed it. I purposely left the engine on my cab untouched because I wanted to take my time and suss out where exactly all of the oil leaks were coming from once I had my engine on the stand. It's a good opportunity to learn things.

It's amazing the amount of grease, grime and dirt that you will have removed from the engine and engine bay when you're done. Pounds, I would estimate.

It's the little things: One of the most rewarding parts of my rebuild was after I refitted the cam towers and heads, and installed new oil return tubes. That's when I realized, holy crap, this thing's coming together!

Have fun. :)

Brian

Gogar 01-07-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1982911SCTarga (Post 4403092)
It's the little things: One of the most rewarding parts of my rebuild was after I refitted the cam towers and heads, and installed new oil return tubes. That's when I realized, holy crap, this thing's coming together!
Brian

Thanks, Brian. Thankfully I'm leaving my cam boxes and heads alone. Since my head studs are all there, I think its in my best interest to leave them alone. As far as cam boxes go, It doesn't look like they were leaking, so I'm gonna roll the dice and leave them alone too. I thought about taking them off so I could get that one little piece of cooling tin out, but then I just let it go.

Everything else? Oh yeah, EVERYTHING else was leaking.

Rot 911 01-07-2009 11:54 AM

Years ago on my 72E I had similar oil return tubes. I couldn't find replacement o-rings so I went with the steel collapsible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230426389.jpg

911boost 01-07-2009 12:15 PM

Let me know when you are ready to reinstall it..

Bill

Gogar 01-08-2009 02:43 PM

Here's something weird kind of.
 
There's this bolt that's on the Driver's side of the case, down low, about the same height as the intermediate shaft. It's got JB weld smeared all over it.

What is that bolt?

I assume the JB is there to stop a leak because (I'm also assuming) you can't back that bolt out of the case . . . . . Anyone?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231458336.jpg

Alright! Looking better. I think I'm about done trying to clean this thing off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231458179.jpg


I sat there and turned the pulley and listened to it go "poof, poof, poof" for a while. That was fun. It's the little things, you know.

gsmith660 01-08-2009 03:05 PM

There is no bolt there I believe so I would think it would not or might be (depending on the way you think) a good idea to take it out.

Gogar 01-08-2009 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmith660 (Post 4405836)
There is no bolt there I believe .

Oh yeah there is one in there.

gsmith660 01-08-2009 03:36 PM

No I mean there's not supposed to be a bolt there. And if there is supossed to be a bolt there it wouldn't be at that odd angle.

1982911SCTarga 01-08-2009 04:13 PM

Your engine's looking good!

Why is it in your engine pic that, when looking at the right bank of cylinders, No. 4 looks different height-wise to 5 and 6?

Brian

Gogar 01-08-2009 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmith660 (Post 4405916)
No I mean there's not supposed to be a bolt there. And if there is supossed to be a bolt there it wouldn't be at that odd angle.

Oh, okay. sorry. I think I'll poke around for a while and look at some other 2.4 pics before I screw with it, but thanks for the info. So it's not there on a 2.7 then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1982911SCTarga (Post 4406007)
Your engine's looking good!

Why is it in your engine pic that, when looking at the right bank of cylinders, No. 4 looks different height-wise to 5 and 6?

Brian

I think it's just the angle of the pic. My driveway/alley is a slight downhill.

Gogar 01-13-2009 02:27 PM

Lke . . . . Christmas, man.
 
Oh yeah.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231888808.jpg

Didn't want to unwrap everything, but you get the picture:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231888823.jpg

Not BLING, more like bling, I think. I like it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231888834.jpg

I had the edges of the fan blades taped off, and my powder-paint guy said the paint would only add about 2 mils to the fan housing, and there's no clearance problems at all. I'm very excited about that.

And YES, I have made provisions for not having paint on the surfaces the fan belt touches. No worries!:)

OOOOH - Ceramic! Inside and out!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231888844.jpg

One of you guys had your HE's at this place the same time I did - they'd never seen them before, and then they got two sets in a week.
http://appliedplastic.com/

And, just as much fun, but in a different way:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231888872.jpg

SmileWavySmileWavy

slodave 01-13-2009 02:36 PM

Nice sock! Gold toe?

The parts look nice too!

curtisaa 01-13-2009 02:45 PM

Powder coating on fan
 
You may have to file off some of the fan blade ends so it fits properly. How many mls. of powder did they apply ??

Gogar 01-13-2009 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtisaa (Post 4415706)
You may have to file off some of the fan blade ends so it fits properly. How many mls. of powder did they apply ??

Ah, you must be a "picture looker", and not a "reader.":D


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.