930 tie rod upgrade questions

[chgoburbs]

Is there a noticable difference between stock 87 tie rods and going 930 upgrades? I have been trying to search the forums but I am coming up unsucessfull.

Is it a tough project, to swap them out well enough to get the car in for an alignment?

Being a new member any tips for more fruitful searches of the forum.

Many thanks!

[old man neri]

I noticed a difference when I changed them. But I don't know if that's because I upgraded or because I replaced old worn out ones.

The hardest part of the whole process is getting the old ones off. I used a hammer and chisel to unscrew them.

If you try to match the lengths you should have no problems getting to the local alignment shop.

[chgoburbs]

The car does only have 28k on it, so I am wondering if this is over kill for a Chicago winter project.

[burgermeister]

I did not notice much of a difference. Whatever I did notice could have been imaginary or real, no way to know the difference. As the change reduces steering system compliance, it should theoretically reduce linear range understeer a bit.

It's probably easiest to just pull the rack and swap tie rods on the bench.

You can realign pretty easily in your garage.

If your stock tierods are OK, I'd leave 'em alone.

[porschenut]

I think it's a good "while you're in there" project, but I wouldn't bother with it until you're in there for some other reason.

I recently did mine as part of a complete suspension refurb, and I can't say for certain whether there's a definite difference or not. Even if there is a difference, it will be subtle at most, unless your old tie rod ends are seriously worn out. Yours won't be at 28k.

[Nine9six]

I wouldn't waste the time, money, or effort on a car with 28K on the clock.
If the rubber in the OEM tie rods is finished due to time and miles, then you will notice a difference. If the rubber is still good in the OEM's, you will be looking for a difference in order to quantify the spending of your time, money, and effort.
I would not think twice at the upgrade at 100K, while refreshing the struts, ball joints, and lowering the car to euro spec's.

[richde]

Originally Posted by Nine9six

I wouldn't waste the time, money, or effort on a car with 28K on the clock.
If the rubber in the OEM tie rods is finished due to time and miles, then you will notice a difference. If the rubber is still good in the OEM's, you will be looking for a difference in order to quantify the spending of your time, money, and effort.
I would not think twice at the upgrade at 100K, while refreshing the struts, ball joints, and lowering the car to euro spec's.

Aren't rubber and fluids affected by time just as much, if not more so, than usage?

[rfn026]

Here's an article that explains it all.

Richard Newton
Project 911

[Jim Garfield]

Good article Richard, thanks. I've bookmarked it as this project is on my list of things to do.

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by rfn026

Here's an article that explains it all.

Richard Newton
Project 911

Whenever some author proclaims to know why Porsche did something, I tend to be very skeptical. It's pretty tough 25 years after the fact to second guess the reasons why certain things got done for anyone other than the people directly involved in making the decision.

[RWebb]

what exactly do you disagree with in that article?

[chgoburbs]

Thank you for all you opinion's.

I appreciate your tech article Richard! I am used to driving a spec miata with a somewhat ridicules suspension setup and I had heard from some Porsche specialists that the 930 tie rod upgrade really tightened up the driving of the car. It seems like an easy and inexpensive mod.

I have no plans to track this car considering the mileage on it, but I would enjoy a more direct feel. If I want to bang mirrors and wheels I stick to the cheap to repair spec pinata.

[chgoburbs]

But if they put it on the 930 why not tighten up a 911?

[MotoSook]

I've done 930 tie-rods on all the cars I've ever done suspension work on. It's relatively cheap and can absolutely be done without dropping the rack. I've never done just the tie-rods, but when part of the full suspension work, the final results have always been excellent.

Getting the tie-rods off the rack and back on isn't that hard at all. I've done it with the car on jack stands and with the car on a two post lift...never felt it was a difficult job.

Getting the alignment right after a tie-rod upgrade is easy, especially if the O.P. has been around race cars. Set the toe to zero using the string method or some other homebrew.

[efhughes3]

There's no way that going to new 930 tie rods is a bad thing if yours are original. After 21 years, they have to be past their prime.

[DCinVA]

Hmmmm, Setting the toe using "The string method"???

I would like to know how to use the string method.

Thanks in advance

[efhughes3]

Do a search using some terms like "string alignment" or such, and you'll find out more details. Basically, you use two parallel strings to use as reference points to set toe for front and rear. I use large jackstands as anchor points, but there is a more sophisticated rig offered by Smart Racing Products. That and a camber gauge, and you can do it all yourself at home.

A time-consuming process the first time, but very rewarding.

[MotoSook]

Ed has pretty much described the method. I'll add that when one is only replacing the tie-rods, the chamber should not change, so only toe has to be adjusted. When installing the tie-rods, setting the new tie-rods to the same length as the old tie-rods will get the toe very close. Be sure to measure from the right references.

During adjustments, make a mental note of the change in toe with turns of the tie-rod. If you think it through, you'll end up making just a few adjustments as oppose to several patience testing adjustments.

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by RWebb

what exactly do you disagree with in that article?

1) The rubber bushings were added to keep steering kickback isolated.

I don't claim to know why they were added. Perhaps to add understeer to the early cars. Perhaps to isolate the steering wheel. Perhaps to save money. Or some other reason I can't think of right now.

2) Removing the stock tie rods makes the steering more precise which was needed for the Turbo.

By this logic, the huge rubber donut on the pinion side of the gear should be removed as well? After all, it's a giant piece of soft rubber between the steering wheel and the rack.

Again, I don't claim to know. But I suspect the author of the article doesn't know either.

[MotoSook]

A rubber joint or bushing is not great for precise movement or control. We replace as much as we can or want to replace in the pursuit of precision. Engineers and designers would love to eliminate anything that works against precise movement and control.....but comfort is also a design factor. Porsche surely had comfort as a design criterion....


...thankfullly, the end user has the option to increase precision in the aftermarket while factoring their own comfort level or threshold.