So I tried to lower my 1983 911...

[gulkster]

So I tried to lower the front of my 1983 targa by screwing in the adjusters as per articles in these forums (see "lowering my 1982 911 sc??"). My car was sitting at 26.5 front and 25 rear, so I thought I would lower the front to around 25-25.5 if possible. However, once I turned the screw in (clockwise from underneath) the car raised 3/4 of an inch! Not good. I have bounced the suspension, but I am not able to drive the car (serious winter here in Winnipeg). Is this maybe the problem, or do I somehow need to be going the other way (counter-clock wise from underneath)? Thanks in advance.

p.s. Here is a pic of me and my car before I touched anything (literally 5 mins after I owned it).

[Chuck Moreland]

Counter clockwise to lower the car.

The screws also adjust the corner weights. If you corner weights are good to begin with, you can get away without performing a corner balance provided you turn both screws an equal amount. Simply count the turns (to 1/8 rotation) and do the same to both.

Know that you will need to do an alignment after changing ride height, both camber and toe will change

[SCWDP911]

nice color choice...

[Joe Bob]

Lowering will most likely make you need an alignment. On the rears, unless you have adjustable spring plates, you need to re-index the torsion bars.

Not an easy job.

[gulkster]

Thanks everyone. So I actually need to "un-screw" the bolt underneath. That helps explain why my car went up, instead of down... I will definitely have an alignment done (worth the $30-40 imho). Maybe a stupid question, but how would I know if my corner weights were/are "good" (I assume this means adjusted well, edit#2 and I have no idea if it good or not)? I've only recently gone from aircooled VWs to this car, so I have a steep learning curve for performance (or any for that matter) mods that I will do.
Thanks.
edit: Oh, and the rears I will leave for now I think. I have done torsion adjustments on beetles and it is a pain for sure. One problem with the back of my car is that the passanger side is 1/2 inch lower than the drivers side. I find this very strange and wonder what may have caused it. My garage isn't as level as a billiards table or anything, but I don't "think" that's the problem.

[SteveinTO]

Don't rely too much on measuring to the fender lip for true & correct ride height.

And you can change your ride height by getting in the car or filling the gas tank.

For instance I think the factory recommends a half tank of gas, 150 lbs in each seat and 75 lbs on the package tray, or some such. When you align to the fenders, you will have only perfectly aligned fenders.

I think the Bentley book, or the glovebox book, has a grander dissertation on alignment, including ride height.

[richde]

Originally Posted by SteveinTO

Don't rely too much on measuring to the fender lip for true & correct ride height.

And you can change your ride height by getting in the car or filling the gas tank.

For instance I think the factory recommends a half tank of gas, 150 lbs in each seat and 75 lbs on the package tray, or some such. When you align to the fenders, you will have only perfectly aligned fenders.

I think the Bentley book, or the glovebox book, has a grander dissertation on alignment, including ride height.

In the Bentley book, it's a full tank, nobody in the car for corner balancing.

It seems like you can chase your tail forever on what to put in the car for corner balancing, but whenever you change the configuration, add or remove a passenger, etc., it'll still be slightly off.

Once you measure ride height the right way, which is time consuming, and discover whether your fenders are straight or not, you can just use the fender lip method from there out. The factory method is good when you're working on different cars all the time, but most of us are not.

[tonythetarga]

Originally Posted by gulkster

I will definitely have an alignment done (worth the $30-40 imho). Maybe a stupid question, but how would I know if my corner weights were/are "good" (.

A $30 or $40 dollar alignment is a waste of cash. Get a properly done 4 wheel alignment from a shop that knows Porsche alignment. This is not your daddys Buick

The only way to know your corner balance is to put it on the scales. If you have a race shop in your area, they can probably do the alignment and give you a corner weight. At least you'll know if you're in the ballpark or in the danger zone. Correct corner weight is essential for proper handling, tire wear and braking.

[911st]

I assume this is just a street car.

If the back is at 25" he is ok there. If there were not handling issues or premature wheel lock up the back alignment may not need to be touched.

Lower the front to near 25.5" as Chuck noted with a half tank of gas and your front air pressure set correctly. You should be ok but may not have enough adjustment and may have to re-index the front bars to do so. After lowering, drive around a bit to settle the car.

Once you have the height where you want it do some fast stops with the tires warmed up. If one wheel wants to lock up easily, your corner balance may be way off. If so, do a search for "tripod method". I think Chuck came up with this. It is basically jacking the car up by the factory jack point, taking the rims off that side, lowering the car back down to stock height on the driver's side. Then you measure the distance from the ground to the fenders or better yet the center of the torsion bars and then compair them to the other side. This should get you close for a street car. If the rear distances are not close, you might just want to take it to a shop and have them set up the car but you can do this your self.

Aligning the front, if the back is ok, is not to big a deal. You can reset the toe using a tape mesure. If you do not go below 25.5" with normal xize front tires you will pick up some neg camber in the front tires. That may not a bad thing and will make the front hold better in corners. The front is easy for most shops to align. Call the local Porsche repair shops to see if they can recommend a shop that knows these cars.

Most of these older 911's have issue with bushing sag that should be looked at. This sag can dammage your torsion bars. If one needs new bushings or is adding new shocks that rase up the car, it is best to go all the way and have the car professionaly set for height, aligned, and corner ballanced.

Just my $.02.

[billybek]

Welcome to the forum!
Nice car, I notice that it is a Euro or ROW car, did you bring it in to Canada?

[Trog]

Repeat after me:

Lefty loosy, righty tighty.

[Joe V]

Gulkster,

Don't go to a proctologist for a toothache. What I'm trying to say is, find a shop that KNOWS Porsches and bring them suitcases full of money. I tried to get my car aligned at a Pep Boys (I know, I know: I WAS A MORON!) and they bent my rocker panels and almost crushed my oil lines. Like Tony G said, it's not a Buick. These are race cars that have been subdued for road use. At least that what I tell my wife.
First thing you should do: buy and read Wayne's book 101 Projects for your Porsche
Second thing: buy and use a Bentley Service Manual. It will save you money and grief. Don't ask me how I know. Drive safe.

[gulkster]

Originally Posted by Trog

Repeat after me:

Lefty loosy, righty tighty.

"clockwise from underneath" is righty-tighty...so there goes that bit Thanks everyone for all the help. I didn't bring the car here, but it is a ROW car. Nice to have the extra bit of hp before I start to do anything. The car was traded in to the PO's dealership. It has not been driven much in the last decade or so. A nice surprise when I brought it home (from Van) this November was that it already had the tensioners upgraded to hydraulic ones I figured I saved an extra 6-700 bucks on the car in that alone. He obviously had no idea that they were there, or what they are I'm sure. He did seem to take nice care of it though. It's no show car, but a real nice original, unmolested daily driver.

I do have a good shop near Winnipeg that I know of where I can get a lot of this stuff checked out. I'm a hands-on owner, but I don't have the equipment to check everything afterward unfortunately. Oh well, can't have everything all the time.

I have "cranked it down" to 25", but I can't drive it at all as it is winter and the car is not road insured (fire and theft only). I have bounced it all I can, and hopefully that has settled it as much as need be...but I guess I will find out in the spring.

[gulkster]

Originally Posted by Joe V

Gulkster,

...find a shop that KNOWS Porsches and bring them suitcases full of money.

First thing you should do: buy and read Wayne's book 101 Projects for your Porsche
Second thing: buy and use a Bentley Service Manual. It will save you money and grief. Don't ask me how I know. Drive safe.

LOL about the suitcases full of money, and yeah, I definitely need a good shop. Yeah I have a couple of books on order, that is one of them. A real problem here in the 'Peg is that there are approximately "zero" local shops with a good rep for anything but newer Porsches. I know a couple of well reputed back-yarders, but I'm one of those myself. I am hoping that the race shop that I will use can help out as another guy from around here has done a lot of suspension and "power" changes to his car. Time will tell I guess.

[gulkster]

So I finally managed to lower the car evenly, and nicely. The final change is 1.75" (it started at 26.5). The before picture can be seen above, and the after picture looks like a nice height to me.


It doesn't look like 1 3/4 inches, but the tape doesn't lie (does it?). I think I would like to re-index the rear, but that can wait until spring, or at least until I can get it aligned and corner balanced. Then I have another point to move from. I am thinking of buying a pair of adjustable spring plates, but if I will be at the torsion bars if I am installing those anyways no (I am working off beetle rear suspension experience so please forgive me, but correct me if I am wrong)? The last thing I would like to do for the cars "stance" is pick up a pair of 9" fuchs...they just look so mean. Now to work on the wife...

[gulkster]

Okay, so I've done a bit more reading...Can anyone tell me how adjustable the stock spring-plates are? The article I read said you need a special (seemingly very thin) wrench to adjust them without removing most of the hard ware. Any suggestions as to whether I might be able to lower the rear 0.5 inches by these adjusters? Thanks in advance.

[SteveinTO]

"Any suggestions as to whether I might be able to lower the rear 0.5 inches by these adjusters?"

Depends on where the last guy left them. And no way will the adjusters be adjusted symmetrical side to side.

In a perfect world you'd center the adjuster, then index the spring plate with Wil Ferch's calculator based on torsion bar strength, car weight, & your hat size and ride height would be almost right on. Then you'd fine tune adjust with the bolt/eccentric adjusters.

Me, I've only proven the definition of insanity, that is "trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result."

[Chuck Moreland]

at 24.75" inches front, you are too low for stock torsion bars and stock spindles.

Your car will bottom on the bump stops regularly. Raise it up to 25.5" or so.

Typically, untouched spring plates are at the end of the range for low ride height. You'll need to re-index the torsion bars to lower further.

[Chuck Moreland]

My comment above assumes you have a stock diameter tire, not a short tire.

[gulkster]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

at 24.75" inches front, you are too low for stock torsion bars and stock spindles.

Your car will bottom on the bump stops regularly. Raise it up to 25.5" or so.

Typically, untouched spring plates are at the end of the range for low ride height. You'll need to re-index the torsion bars to lower further.

Okay. Thanks for the heads up. I guess I will need to raise it up until I pick up new torsion bars. I'm sure the old ones will be pleased to collect dust after their 26+ years of service anyways