Parts Manuals/Info

docrodg · 07-01-2009, 01:33 PM

OK... so going thru as much information as I have been able to find, using the book 991/912, forums, web searches, etc. I have gotten some information about differences between ROW and US cars for 1968 but barely any. Still can't find all the info I need tho, and it is driving me nuts.

Mechanical/Electrical repair etc no problem - too many years working on these and other cars (FIAT the worst).

Body etc. - not a body person, (thank god I don't need body work, would have to ship the car somewhere for that many miles away), but that is where the differences I am trying to hunt down lie... and information seems to be sparse.

Parts books, pics, anything! Anyone???

It seems that Porsche was not consistent in their records for that time period either from some information I am getting.

Also, how to get a COA on a Euro car??? I feel that a full accounting of options etc. is strictly required for a restoration. But the Porsche dealer I called said they could not get one for a car not originally sold in US.

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 07-01-2009, 01:41 PM

You ask one specific question about a CoA, whatever that is, so I can't help you there. But what is the rest of your post about? Are you asking everyone to tell you everything they know about 1968 911s? I think you need to be a little more specific.

docrodg · 07-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Sorry Steve, guess it was not specific.

I am looking for help finding 2 specific things:

1. I am looking for good information sources (books, manuals, websites, etc.) on model differences for 1968 model year. I already have the 911/912 book, but there must be other good resources. Recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

2. The COA I am referring to is the Certificate of Authenticity (The new Kardex). The nearest dealer to me said that they cannot get those for ROW cars here in the US but also that they could not get one from Europe either. Basically the story from the dealer is that I can get no information specific to my car because it was imported long ago.

Grady Clay · 07-01-2009, 02:07 PM

docrodg,
Welcome to the Forum

You will find a lot of help here.

PCNA will get (sell) you a CoA for your RoW ’68 911S. Just pay. You can download the form from the PCA site www.pca.org

The best, least expensive resource is the PET CD. It has all the parts info for every production Porsche. This includes the exploded diagrams. This CD has a regular Porsche part number and is available from PCNA Dealers for about $10.

I recommend you find a Factory Workshop Manual, Volumes I & II. This covers 911s ’65-’71. Even a photocopy is better than nothing until you find an original.

There is a booklet (available somewhere online) called “Porsche Vehicles Used for Sports Purposes” circa 1968. You can download a copy.

Bruce’s latest edition is a ‘must have’ for you.
Anderson, Bruce; Porsche 911 Performance handbook, 3rd Ed. (Minneapolis, MN, MBI, 2009). ISBN 978-0-7603-3180-4.

Searching here on Pelican will yield a wealth of information relevant for your car. The same is true for the Early S Forum.

What do you want to do with your 911? Drive? Tinker? Hotrod? Restore? Autocross? Race? Concourse? Hide it? Wax it? The good news is you can do some of all.

I have my ’68 911 (normal) coupe that I special ordered from Porsche KG when new. It has been around the block a few times in just over 41 years. It has seen just about everything you can do with a 911.

Best,
Grady

docrodg · 07-01-2009, 09:01 PM

Thanks Grady and Stephen! This car is for full restoration. Body great but has US lenses and lights and gages.

Grady Clay · 07-02-2009, 05:26 AM

docrodg,

Quote:

Body great but has US lenses and lights and gages.

Headlights and gauges are easily returned to original. The very difficult parts are the dash vinyl texture, door panels, seats and headliner. If those are even close to acceptable, leave them alone. Even replacement carpets are difficult to have appear original.

Do you still have five 5½x15 Fuchs? Those are ’68 only.

Bosch introduced the H1 in ’68. That is the best appropriate headlight and far better than the ’67 headlight carried over to the ’68 European delivery cars.

Please post images. Everyone wants to see the flattering ones. I want to see any distress. In many cases it is desirable to maintain original that is less-than-perfect as opposed to non-correct new replacement parts.

Quote:

This car is for full restoration.

If this is for your satisfaction; great. With declining prices, you can easily end up with double and more invested compared to a sale price - even if you got it free.

As an addition, here are the various models produced in 1968. I had no idea how poor the sources for this information are. The only numbers that may be close to correct are from Ludvigsen: total production 14,300 with 56% 911.

912 Coupe RoW -
912 Coupe USA -
912 Targa RoW -
912 Targa USA -
911 (normal) Coupe RoW (1)
911 (normal) Coupe USA – 1251 (2)
911 (normal) Targa RoW (1)
911 (normal) Targa USA – 268 (2)
911T Coupe RoW – 928 Reuter + 683 Karmann = 1611
911T Targa RoW - 521
911L Coupe RoW - 720
911L Coupe USA – 449 (2) or 5449 depending on source
911L Targa RoW - 307
911L Targa USA – 134 (2) or 5134 depending on source
911S Coupe RoW - 1267
911S Targa RoW - 442
911R Coupe - race only - 20

(1) Porsche doesn’t list these but I have personally seen several. At the time I didn’t record the VIN so I can’t say for sure they weren’t converted from a 911T although they did have 901/06 engines.

(2) The production numbers are what I can glean from Porsche, Anderson, Ludvigsen and Paterine. These are absolutely NOT publication quality researched numbers. Ludvigsen reports Porsche built 14,300 of the 1968 model cars, 56% 911s. My recollection this is close. I don’t think Porsche knows today how many of what models they built.

The big difference between the USA 912 and the ‘inland’ version is the 911-like heat exchangers.

All 911 versions could be delivered with the Sportomatic transmission (including the 911S). All 911s and 912s were standard with the 4-speed – except the 911S. Most were delivered with the optional 5-speed.

Coupe bodies were built at both the old Reuter factory (Porsche Werk I) and by Karmann for the 912 USA, 911 USA and 911T RoW.

The USA versions had smog pumps (912 also), sealed beam headlights, rubber knobs and reflectors on each fender.

The 911T had the basic trim of the 912. The 911 USA was not much higher – if at all.

Many of the non-USA cars used up inventory left over from ’67 production. Porsche was scrambling to build enough cars to meet the demand.

This was a tumultuous time at Porsche. They had just been required to buy Reuter and were having to pay for the Weissach purchase and now build real buildings there. It was difficult to save the capital necessary to expand the production facilities with a multi-story building.

Best,
Grady

docrodg · 07-02-2009, 07:58 AM

I have posted on this car before, but still looking for more info on specifics.

Quote:

Headlights and gauges are easily returned to original. The very difficult parts are the dash vinyl texture, door panels, seats and headliner. If those are even close to acceptable, leave them alone. Even replacement carpets are difficult to have appear original.

Carpet, Dash, are ok... Gauges, I am having trouble finding Euro versions.

Quote:

Do you still have five 5½x15 Fuchs? Those are ’68 only.

Yep... on the car, look good.

The car is for restoration, from Uncle, I have had some trouble tracking down prior info as he has had it for a long time and is not sure on some items from the original owner he bought it from in late 70's (give or take a few years). In addition, although he is very meticulous about taking care of it and getting best work he can done, I have noticed that it is really easy to have something replaced and end up with it slightly off due to parts availability by the shop doing the work. The gage refacing is an example - he had them done and explained they needed to be refaced to Euro spec, but the shop did them to UK/US and 911L spec. This info is not easy to get as some items happened quite a long time ago so memory plays a role in getting accurate info.

Some of this is frustrating trying to find info or replacements for, but it is a little intriguing; I always liked restoration, and with Porsche it is a bit different, you have to play PSI - Porsche Specification Investigation

I have many books on mechanicals, Brakes etc. from college days (anyone need a copy of physics of cylinder heads and porting?), I also have a copy of factory service manual. Dr. Johnson's book (some help... but not as much as needed), Red book for VIN etc. (Checks out, 11801234).

In my prior posts I received some feedback (Thanks Fellas!) but not a lot of explanation on what was correct or sources for the determination on what wasn't. Please forgive me - I am a perfectionist on some things and this is one of them. Example - I know the antenna was changed from manual to power and moved to right fender - Right fender is correct, but antenna is not stock unit used and the location is unknown as to if it is correct (exact location may be off?). This kind of detail is what I do naturally and can lead to frustration!

Car is being put on a trailer right now heading for my garage here in NY from Cali. Will have more pics soon. In meantime here are cell phone pics (posted before) with comments on my concerns that I or others here have identified.

Pics of Issues identified so far:

docrodg · 07-02-2009, 10:50 AM

Well, I actually found the antenna position dimensions... had them all along! They are in the tech supplement of the factory manual.

Man, do I feel stupid...

Grady Clay · 07-02-2009, 12:06 PM

Good work!

I hope you get a environmentally secure garage for the 911. Just the humidity in Upstate air will accelerate the “rusting while sitting quietly”. Get it somewhere with a dehumidifier. Any moisture is too much. Don’t wash it.

The interior light has proper chrome trim.

The door panel damage from the speaker installation may prove very difficult to recover from.

The radio should be relatively easy.

If the hood badge is incorrect, there are the proper one available with some work.

Headlight are easy.

You can have the instrument faces and indicator needles made exactly like original non-export. Probably Hollywood Speedometer might be the best choice. Note that the redline is incorrect for a 911S.

Don’t touch the headliner.

Try and find NOS turn signal assemblies. They will be pricy but little else will make the car ‘stand out’ like new here.

I can’t tell from the image if the grill is correct.
What is the history of the paint?

Is there any rust showing?
Do you know where to look to find the ‘hidden’ rust?
Is there any prior crash damage and repair?

Does it have the gas heater?
Are the fog lights OK?

How is the tool kit?
How is the driver’s manual, pouch and contents?
Do you have the original window sticker?

Good that the VIN is 1180xxxx. Is the engine *408zzzz* type 901/02? Carbs 40IDS? What transmission numbers? Only the CoA will tell if “numbers matching”.

You have a major challenge and a great responsibility here. You are now the caretaker of a very special car. Collect as much provenance as possible.

Anxious to see high quality images.

Best,
Grady

docrodg · 07-02-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

I hope you get a environmentally secure garage for the 911. Just the humidity in Upstate air will accelerate the “rusting while sitting quietly”. Get it somewhere with a dehumidifier. Any moisture is too much. Don’t wash it.

Definately aware of that one... have appropriate storage.

Code:

The interior light has proper chrome trim.

Cool, I can't find a all chrome replacement, but will just take a lens out of one with black trim.

Quote:

The door panel damage from the speaker installation may prove very difficult to recover from.

That is the killer... may have to eat it there and just fit a good speaker.

Quote:

You can have the instrument faces and indicator needles made exactly like original non-export. Probably Hollywood Speedometer might be the best choice. Note that the redline is incorrect for a 911S.

Yeah, the reface last time was done by someone who didn't know S go to 7300.

Quote:

I can’t tell from the image if the grill is correct.

I am working on that... The rear lid is a "barred" version, so that hinges on the "birth date" which I need a COA for. Unless you are referring to the front grills, which my understanding were not changed from 67-69 and that the 69 would not fit (smaller).

Quote:

What is the history of the paint?

Not sure on car original color... the current paint is perfect, color-sanded, and beautiful.

Quote:

Is there any rust showing?
Do you know where to look to find the ‘hidden’ rust?
Is there any prior crash damage and repair?

No rust damage, no crash or other damage. If I drive this up here and hit a deer I will likely commit suicide.

Quote:

Does it have the gas heater?
Are the fog lights OK?

How is the tool kit?
How is the driver’s manual, pouch and contents?
Do you have the original window sticker?

Unsure... did not have chance to check when I was there visiting.

Quote:

Good that the VIN is 1180xxxx. Is the engine *408zzzz* type 901/02? Carbs 40IDS? What transmission numbers? Only the CoA will tell if “numbers matching”.

Will be able to verify when it gets here and is unloaded.

Really my biggest challenge may be that the nearest PCNA is a bunch of morons... they have twice told me they cannot get a COA for a ROW car.

Grady Clay · 07-02-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docrodg

Really my biggest challenge may be that the nearest PCNA is a bunch of morons... they have twice told me they cannot get a COA for a ROW car.

CoA is done by mail to Atlanta.
Get the form from the PCA site noted above.

Best,
Grady

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

COAs not very accurate - sez the Early911s BBS posters

apparently you can complain to P AG and they will correct & reissue the things...