Question re: Carrera 3.2 3rd Brake Lamp Variations
 

Hello Pelicans,

I own an '87 Carrera 3.2 Coupe (build date 2/87) with front and rear factory spoilers (smile & decklid). Over the years of admiring and shopping for my first 911, I noticed that the '84-89 Carreras have two or three variations of the 3rd brake lamp:

1) The "War Of The Worlds" (or "Cyclops") style -- mounted externally at the top of the factory-installed tail. My car has this style which is specified on the window sticker that I have in my records file (see photo below).

My '87 Coupe
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_n8FEqPBIJsU/SM...0/IMG_2386.JPG

'87 Targa
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.562x421.jpg

Carrera 3.2 Cabriolet (New South Wales, Australia)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1354/...cf76b0307b.jpg


I believe this style was available for cars with and without the rear decklid spoiler according to Pelican Parts inventory:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_ELlite_pg7.htm#item30

2) The "inside the car" mounting location at the top of the window or at the bottom of the window (see link above to Pelican's inventory).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/...53066d4b3b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/...00202b21af.jpg

Carrera with a Turbo Tail added (?)
http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.562x421.jpg

http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.497x421.jpg

http://images.autotrader.com/images/..._A.565x377.jpg

Hopefully, my question for the group here is a simple one...

What combination of Production Date (i.e., production year / month), 911 Model (i.e., Coupe, Targa, Cabriolet), and Factory Options / Option Packages determined the style of factory-installed 3rd brake lamp (U.S. Spec, in particular)?

I have been confused because I have seen later model Carrera 3.2s with and without the decklid spoiler that have the 3rd brake lamp either externally or internally.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful comments and for the education... :cool:

Best,
Tim

p.s.
I searched the archives without success and also tried searching Google neither of which yielded any solid answers.
Sorry if this is a frequently asked question... SmileWavy

So, is this a reasonable question or am I missing something so completely obvious that no one wants to point out my blatant ignorance? I would appreciate any information fellow Pelicans could offer. Thanks in advance...

The Red and Champaign ones are not OEM.

It is either the ET (for Cabs) or the top of rear windshield (for Coupes/Targas).

You really might want to rethink that. All three locations are OEM.

Hey Dave,

Hope you are well.

So you are saying pics #6 and #8 are OEM?

I do agree the ET is an option for cars with tails if ordered from the factory.

Not sure that 6 and 8 had tails when they left the factory.

6 looks like a turbo tail and the script in 8 is not in the right place.

I believe he was asking about the third light placement. They just don't look right to me, but I could be wrong ;)

Yes and they still had them in the lower center :). 87-89

Oh Cool, when my LEDs go out, I am going to update it to the OEM part. Thanks for the edification :D

I'm surprised no one has answered, so here's my understanding.

The center mount taillight became mandatory in the US starting with the 1986 model year.

So, 1985 and earlier had none.

Cabriolets - that's easy, the 1986 through 1989 Cabs all had the "ET" style third brake light.

For coupes and targas, general rules:

1986 - Came with the third brake light on the inside of the car, on the rear glass, in the UPPER location.

1987. For some reason, Porsche located the light to the LOWER interior location for this year only.

1988-89 - it was moved back to the upper location.

But there does seem to be some issue, from what I've seen, on cars that came with spoilers, either as options on the Carreras, or standard on the Turbo. I've seen spoilered 86-89 cars with the light on the glass (in the locations above, depending on year), OR with the "ET" external one, and nothing in the glass. It seems like they did both, randomly.

So Tim, you will pass concours or put an OEM light on the lower part of the rear windshield to ID as a 87.

It seems, and this is only a guess, that '87 was an oddball year, the only one with the internal light mounted on the bottom of the inside window, and it seems like 1987 cars that came with spoilers (either factory spoilers on the Carrera or standard on the Turbo) had the "ET" style light.

The other years spoilered cars seem to come with the internal, upper mounted light.

Maybe the 1987 lower mounted light was too low to pass regs, so they needed the ET light? But then when they moved back to the upper one for 88/89, they could standardize all 911/930 to run that one, with no external ET light.

Just a datapoint, I had a 1985 911 coupe with a factory carrera tail that had the snorkel third brake light from the factory. My '87 911 targa with a factory carrera tail had the same. I have since removed the unsightly wart from the back of my car to install a ducktail. :)

As another example. Mine is an '87, I'm pretty sure the tail was added after the car left the factory. Third brake light is inside, on the bottom.

Two different "ET" lights were also used:

Third brake light- external without spoiler------911 631 071 00--- 86-89' (this one is a little shorter than the other one.)
Third brake light- external with spoiler----------911 631 072 00----86-89'

Three different internal lights

Third brake light- inside, upper------------------ 911 631 070 00 01C----86-87'
Third brake light- Coupe, inside lower----------911 631 080 00---------87-89'
Third brake light- Targa, inside lower----------- 911 631 070 01 ---------87-89'

That would answer my question as to why my 1984 Cab, with whale tail has no third brake light. Have no plans of adding it either!!

3.2 cab nailed it! It's pretty much the same for Canadian sold 911's (although there were times) when people ordered their 911's with out tails but decided to instal them @ the dealer level, that's when you saw some "inapropriate" locations ie; like the light inside (on the bottom) with the tail, pretty noticeable when it's a turbo tail (the rubber lip @ road level viewing covers part of the light). The shorty ET was on cabs without tails (don't see these too often, kinda' cool IMO). Sometimes it depended on whether the dealer ordered the car and customer bought it, but with extra dealer options (this would show on the window sticker but not on the build sheet) unless if the customer actually put in a factory order, everything here would show on buld sheet that's oredered, but again if customer decides to add some things, these items would show on window sticker. Atleast that's the way it as here in Ontario, Canada @ the time.

I'm really glad someone asked this question. My '87 Coupe with factory Carrera tail has the ET snorkel light and I would love to remove it. Anyone with experience care to share the process, along with what to use to plug the 2 holes in the tail?

Is it a PITA to convert to the inside the glass 3rd light? Or should I just remove the snorkel and be done with it?

As another data point to confirm what I think has been defined here, I have a '87 Targa (manufactured 11/86) without a tail which has the 3rd brake light at the bottom of the rear window.

I've got a cab w/no tail, so I have the shorty ET light. I'd actually like to get a Carrera tail w/the tall ET light. In my searches, I've noticed that there is also a discrepancy as to where the light is mounted on the decklid. Sometimes, it's actually on the tail, and sometimes, it's on the decklid, just above the tail. I am assuming this is a result of the dealer-added tails???

There are a couple bolts underneath the snorkel on the bottom side of the lid. I believe they take a 5mm hex key to loosen. I had to loosen my entire engine lid to get at them. IIRC the wiring just unplugs from a harness once you trace it back. I have yet to find anything really suitable for plugging the holes with a nice finished look. I have some plastic plugs from Mcmaster Carr in mine right now.

It's not a tough job to remove it though.

Hi All,

Thanks very much for your thoughts on this issue. Nice to know other "chumps" here are stumped too. Click & Clack (The Tappet Brothers) would get a kick out of this, I'm sure. ;)

Again, the window sticker for my 2/1987-produced Coupe shows that the front and rear spoiler were factory-specified. As some (i.e., the) suggested, it seems like '87 must have been a change-over year for the 3rd brake lamps. Ugh...I'm still a bit confused...

Again, my thanks for your assistance.
Tim

No, your photos do conform to what I've posted.

'87 was the off year, where non-spoilered cars came with the lower window mounted interior light. Spoilered cars for '87 came WITHOUT the window mounted light, but with the ET exterior light instead.

Like I said previously, my guess is because the lower window mounted light didn't pass regs (probably too low) for visibilty on a spoilered car.

Aha...thank you Sir. I think I follow now. :cool:

I had a 1985 coupe with that setup. I now have a 1987 targa with factory spoilers and it also has the snorkel brake light.

Got it. I'm now on the same page as you and the. This really helps. Thanks fellas. SmileWavy

Ugly or not, I am glad that my car has a 3rd brake lamp. I am convinced that it has saved me from being rear-ended numerous times by the moronic, low-time (~60,000 college students in this town), and generally distracted drivers I encounter in my area. People really tend to tailgate me in traffic when I'm in the 911. It drives me insane!

That's odd, because the third brake light law did not come into effect in the US until the 1986 model year.

A 1985 should have no third brake light at all - it didn't exist at the time (I guess unless maybe it was a really late 85 and they started putting them on then - seems like they would not put on equipment that was not legally required, but who knows).

I would have thought so too, but the spoilers were absolutely factory issue on that car, no doubt in my mind. Here is a picture of each car with said brake light.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232424245.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232424278.jpg

I guess you're going for "correct". That last targa pic looks awful with the brake light. I put an LED one that is about a foot long and one inch think in the top of my rear window inside. You can't see it in your rear view mirror, or very easily from the exterior, but when you hit the brakes it sure lights up.

Both those cars have been modified, so who knows. The black one, obviously the wheels and exhaust, but more importantly, some work has been done on the decklid/spoiler. The Carrera emblem, for example, is in the wrong place.

The Targa, if it is an 85, has the wrong rear reflector. It has one that wasn't even available until 1987. So someone has messed with the rear of that car.

The targa is an '87 as per my signature, so the reflector et al is correct. The modifications on the '85 coupe were all done by myself aside from the carrera badge on the engine lid, that would have been a PO. It's possible the car had a little paint work and the badge wasn't put back on correctly, but it's doubtful that someone would have added the third brake light after the fact. The one on the '87 was absolutely factory and the car was completely unmodified when I purchased it.