Crushed Oil Line Nightmare

[janz]

OK I read every post and thread on this subject (spent hours) and thought I was ready for whatever presents itself. Well after trying on the car to remove the lines I knew it wasn't going to happen so I dropped the whole thing out, thermostat all the way to and including the cooler. Now I had room to work.





The line that was bad didn't want to budge but got it off but not without messing up the threads on the thermostat/bypass valve.



Of course the other 3 came off the thermostat/bypass valve nice. So now I go to the cooler and the bad line comes off nice but while trying to remove the good line from the cooler that damn butterfly in Zimbabwae did its thing and the wrench slips and twists the good line.



Now to make the decision as to wether or not I can save the good line. Fix the crushed line and get the repair nut from our host. More than likely have to replace
the thermostat/bypass valve. If I do replace the lines should I get the Elephant lines? Anyone have any experience with these, like do they fit as well as the stock lines etc. At least its still winter and 2 feet of snow on the ground here so I'm not chompin at the bit to go for a ride. Wish Pelican would email me one of those 10 to 15% off the total order coupons. The cost does hurt a bit but I want to be able to just install everything easily the first time and have no leaks. What do you folks think.

[Rusty Heap]

OUCH.

but okay, do a search on my "fixed my oil lines for $5 and a beer" post. That'll take car of the mid pipe crunch.

On the nut end, heat the muther up and maybe try a tapered steel driver, got an airchisel handy? They often come with a "pointy tip"

Get two people, one heating one twisting and driving in the tapered wedge. You ain't go nuthin to lose by trying..........

good luck.

no worries, go for it.

[cgarr]

These lines will bend back very easy, the end with the nut should not be any problem to fix, any home center now carries repair copper tubing pieces that happen to slide perfect over these lines, that would work for the badly crushed line, but after cutting it I bet you could get a lot of that out with a mandrel down the tube.

[Won]

Damn butterflies in Zimbabwae. You should be able to cut the straight section from the "bad" line to replace the twisted part on the "good" line. Use union sleeve for 3/4" copper tubing which has 7/8" ID, perfect for the oil lines.

It might have been better if you split the nut off the thermostat, cut and splice the line, and while it's cut slip a new 30mm nut on. I believe the nut can be obtained from a few different sources, or you can buy the short soft line connecting the oil cooler and long lines for $24 and get 2 nuts from that. I also had an old trombone cooler lying around which I could cut to include the bend and reduce the amount of splicing. It's documented here: Yet another spliced oil cooler line thread - Save those trombones! but I guess it's too late for you now.

Edit: try untwisting the line first as others mentioned above. Good idea!

[Elombard]

did we ever get a decision on the "work hardening' or whatever on the copper?

[chrisp]

i haven't done this but i would clamp the wrench flats in a vise open end up. Find a dowel or soemthing round that just barely fits in the opening. have a helper on the other end of the line pushing on the line like they are trying to untwist it as you pound the round thing into the opening. heating it with a propane torch should help.

[LM3929]

Work hardening is cause by the copper bending or repeated flexing.

To anneal you heat the tube up fairly warm and then allow it to cool naturally.

[porsche930dude]

when you try to un dent the twist use a small dowel and work your way up. if you immediatly use a big punch it wont go and you just bend it in a way you dont want it to. the threads on your thermostat might be ok. id clean them up and try it as is. i stripped my carerra cooler threads like that and they still grabbed pretty good. make them just tighter than hand tight if you go too tight it will leak anyway.

[tom1394racing]

These can be repaired with standard copper tubing and map gas/plumbing solder couplings.

The key is to get the OEM brass parts to be as round as possible so that there is a perfect fit with the standard plumbing copper tubing coupling.

I did this recently and used my metric socket set and a brass hammer to make everything fit. Leak tested and no issues.

[janz]

Thanks to all who replied. I am going to try fixing the oil tubes as suggested. While I was looking at all the info and what I had taken out just couldn't help but wonder: If the cooler lines are crushed even somewhat, when the oil thermostat opens to allow the oil to circulate to the cooler, does it close (I beleive it does) going from the engine to the filter and tank. If this does happen then the crushed oil line is restricting oil flow thus lowering oil pressure to the engine? When the thermostat opens its because the oil temp is up and the engine is running hard and thats when it needs the oil the most. So the crushed oil lines would cause back pressure on the engine oil pump causing it to be less effecient than if the oil lines where not restricted. If all this is true than I can see just how important having oil lines with no restriction can be.

[jh225]

Originally Posted by tom1394racing

These can be repaired with standard copper tubing and map gas/plumbing solder couplings.

The key is to get the OEM brass parts to be as round as possible so that there is a perfect fit with the standard plumbing copper tubing coupling.

I did this recently and used my metric socket set and a brass hammer to make everything fit. Leak tested and no issues.

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that you have cut out sections of your OEM tube and soldered in copper couplings, correct?

Regardless if you pressure tested them afterwards or not, there is no way I would bet my engines life (and quite possibly my life) on the fact that a soldered joint is going to hold.

If a joint decides to spring a leak while driving down the road, it will dump out 10 quarts of oil real quick. The oil most likely will also spray down onto the rear tire and we all know what happens then.

The way I see it is that if the tube can not be reformed by using the pressure method, its time for a new one. Is it an expensive fix at $400? Hell yeah, but that money is worth your life.

[Gunter]

I am with Tom on this one and would replace sections of the crushed copper pipe instead of trying to restore the damage with compressed air and heat.

Before twisting and manipulating these old pipes effectively weakening the copper, I'd trust in a good solder.

The trick is to get the pieces very clean with fine grit sandpaper, allow max overlap and heat/flux will do the rest.

New industrial copper pipes and fittings have most likely more strength than the OEM pipes especially when the OEM is ~30 years old.

[BeauBlues]

Originally Posted by jh225

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that you have cut out sections of your OEM tube and soldered in copper couplings, correct?

Regardless if you pressure tested them afterwards or not, there is no way I would bet my engines life (and quite possibly my life) on the fact that a soldered joint is going to hold.

If a joint decides to spring a leak while driving down the road, it will dump out 10 quarts of oil real quick. The oil most likely will also spray down onto the rear tire and we all know what happens then.

The way I see it is that if the tube can not be reformed by using the pressure method, its time for a new one. Is it an expensive fix at $400? Hell yeah, but that money is worth your life.

There is absolutely no problems with splicing in new sections, soldering them together. I have done this myself. This method is used widely in many types of plumbing that involve much higher pressures and temperatures. Besides, if and I mean if a joint were to fail, all you would see is some seepage, not a catastrophic failure like mentioned. One of the threads out there where I reconstructed a really big section of oil lines has all sorts of bends and a lot of joints....didn't leak a drop.

[LM3929]

If you are worried about the soldered joint use silver solder , it has a higher melting point and creates a higher strength joint.

Lorne M.

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by janz

If the cooler lines are crushed even somewhat, when the oil thermostat opens to allow the oil to circulate to the cooler, does it close (I beleive it does) going from the engine to the filter and tank. If this does happen then the crushed oil line is restricting oil flow thus lowering oil pressure to the engine?

AFAIK, there is a bypass in the thermostat. If the pressure in the cooler loop gets too high, the oil is rerouted back to the tank without going through the cooler loop. And, it's on the scavenge side of the pump, so it can't affect engine oil pressure at all.

I have a soldered copper section on mine - no issues so far (knock on wood).

BTW, the fittings on the end are probably soldered even on the factory lines. And I believe the ER replacement lines are also (silver) soldered at the fittings. If you're getting oil temps high enough to bother non-silver solder, you will likely have other issues first ...

[NY65912]

I'd silver solder for sure. 30+ years in the plumbing business and never saw a properly soft soldered joint come apart yet. But if it were I, I'd silver braze it.

[janz]

Well after trying to straighten out the twist and saw a large crack in the tube just before the fixed nut I decided to just go and buy the new lines and thermostat. So there goes new tires for the spring, just have to wait a little longer as my current tires are still around 50%. Just want that feeling that all was replaced with new so I'm not constantly looking under the car for leaks. Has anyone used the elephant racing oil lines, what about the aftermarket thermostats are they any good?

[porsche930dude]

solder joints are extremely strong. i wanted to prove to my freind who is a plumber that a penny works fine for an end cap on 1/2" copper. we solderd it on and tried to rip it off with vice grips. after some struggle we were able to get it off but it completely tore off and left in place the copper plating on the penny. If im concered about anything its the "work hardening" of the copper over the thinner brass. But with small replacement sections im sure its not a problem. But if you want to repair it the right way feel free

[joefrantz]

Before you buy a new thermostat you may want to check this out. Thread failures are common, and these are intended to save otherwise functioning thermostats with damaged threads. It's called a Thermostat Saver

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911E&section=ENGoil&page=8&bookmark=15&part_number=PEL-PP901687

[T77911S]

would heating the T stat have prevented it from tristing? i am planning on doing this down the road and i am concerned about removing the lines.