My tires are tired...street/track tire recs? And some basic tire questions.

[VroomGrrl]

I posted in my brake job thread that I discovered today that I need new tires all around. I knew my tread was running out, but I was planning on running these a little longer. However I didn't know I was down to the cord on the inside of one of my front tires, I guess because I haven't stuck my head under there to look, and I haven't had the wheels off since I bought this car in July. So! New tires.

In looking at tires, I have some really, really basic questions about sizes. As those of you who "know" me know, I don't know nuthin about none of this stuff! What better way to learn than jumping in over my head? When it comes to tire shopping...

A few basic facts: current tire sizes are 205/55R16 front and 225/50R16 rear. I have the stock Fuchs wheels, 7" front 9" rear. I have 29mm (approx 1") spacers on the rear wheels, if that makes any difference.

Tire size numbers - I understand how to decipher those. Here is what I don't understand: do I have to get the exact same sized tires as what I'm running now? Or is there a range of sizes that will fit my wheels? I have Googled and gotten some basic info, but I still can't really tell - how do I know exactly what will/will not work size-wise?

As for which tires...

Before posting, I attempted to use the search function. I found it very frustrating. So to start out, for anyone who would like to suggest use of the search function, please provide some technical assistance which will get me to info on recommendations for dual purpose street-track tires. I used "track tires" and "tire reviews" and didn't find anything too helpful. Search tips welcomed!

As for what I'm looking for in these tires - I am willing to sacrifice ride comfort and cabin quiet for better performance on the track. To be clear, I don't care how rough they ride and I don't care how noisy they are. I know I want fairly stiff sidewalls. I'm running Michelin Pilot Sports now - they've been pretty good all around tires, but I can really feel how mushy the sidewalls are when I push it on the track.

Cost is a factor, of course. But my belief is that since the tire is literally the only place where the car touches the road - they are an important investment in safety and performance. My priority is to get some decent tires that I can run around on, take some longer trips on, and do autocross mostly (planning a full season, 10+ events), and maybe 3 DE events this season.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Kathy

[cameron.arnott]

Kathy

I'm not sure on availability in the US - you might want to check tirerack.com ?? but I've used both Dunlop DO1J's and Yokohama AO48's with good results.

Good luck!

[michael lang]

Tires are one subject that can be talked about and debated until people are blue in the face. There are many reasons why people but the tires they buy. For me, it was having nice big tread blocks but also were grooved to channel water away, for the way I drive I really liked how the RA1 worked, others have better success with other tires. It's really a matter of personal choice. Given the description of what you will be using it for, I would suspect the Pilot Sports would be a fine choice. I think your current may be just getting old which would explain why the sidewalls have gotten softer. Other than that, the PS2's are an excellent performance tire. I hope this helps you.

[Newsboy]

You could certainly increase your tire width and size if you like. More tire usually means more grip. Check out this Tire Calculator http://www.rims-n-tires.com/rt_specs.jsp. Tire choice is a very individual preference. I'm sure you can get plenty of opinions here. You can also check out the reviews on Tire Rack. If you really want a performance track tire, you won't be able to use it in the winter. If cost is a consideration, Yokahama S-Drive and Khumo Estca two to look at.

[tony9704]

Hi Kathy,
Just replaced mine right before winter. I had it boiled down to 2 choices regarding $ vs. performance. I was looking at the Dunlop Star Spec as well as th Hankook Ventus. Hankooks were around $100/tire, Dunlop $125/tire. Tire rack and its customers rated the Dunlops much higher than the Hankooks. The guy at the Specialty tire store where I bought them recommended the Hankooks as he had used them on his Ricer with great results. I went Hankook. First review- LOUD! Maybe they will break in, I dont know. Handle about the same as the Dunlops I had on it. Total with Install- Less than 500. Pretty good value. BUT, If I had another whack at it, I prob would go with the Dunlops for 100 more. My opinion. Good Luck.

[Dixie]

You left out one piece of pertinent info. How much time is the car going to spend on the track versus the street? If you mostly track the car, and have some set-time under your butt, I'd suggest going to a set of Toyo RA1s or R-888s.

As for tire sizing, I'd stick with the tire sizes you are currently running unless you go to different wheels.

Oh, and since you're putting the car on the track, I suggest loosing the rear spacers if they're the kind with separate studs. They don't gain you anything. They makes it hard to check your lugs, and presents something else to break.

[michael lang]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

since you're putting the car on the track, I suggest loosing the rear spacers if they're the kind with separate studs. They don't gain you anything and presents something else to break.

Good point!!

[s_morrison57]

Kathy
Why not get a spare set of wheels and use Goodyear slicks for your track days ? Slicks rule for performance , thing is the cost, used them on my formula cars for years (FF & FA) not the same set of course but for 10 solo events you might get away with 2 sets of fronts and 1 set of rears. Just a thought but why waste your race tires going on long trips, and there is no such thing as a tire for the track that will give you good performance/durability on the street, there is always a compromise, so to eliminate the toss up get a set for the track and a set for the street.
Chicks with P cars that like to race---- big time cool!!! ya wanna get married???
Scott

[hcoles]

maybe someone mentioned this.. I didn't see it. you likely have 6's and 8's or maybe 7's and 8's. I need new tires also... there are a lot of brands people are talking about. I currently have SO3's. I'm not to the cord yet... and don't want to get new tires and then take my son AXing. I have some track wheels and tires.. and those are getting way down also.

[JMatta]

I would doubt you have 9's on the rear with spacers...7's or 8's perhaps.

Whoops...see hcoles beat me to it.

[Bill Verburg]

I agree that it sounds fishy to have 9" Fuchs w/ 1" spacers, it's also odd to have 225/50 on 9" wheels, it is not a usual pairing, most tires manufacturers will not recommend that pairing.

You need to determine what wheels are on the car before any meaningful discussion can take place.

[VroomGrrl]

Originally Posted by michael lang

Good point!!

Lots of good points! Thanks, everyone.

OK first on the spacers, I have the nice super-long lugs on there, all one piece (well, each one) and they look to be in great shape:



As for wheel sizes, now I wish I had taken a closer look at the wheels when they were off the car, and taken some measurements! I guess I assumed 9 because the tire size worked out to 8.86". Whatever is stock for wheels in the 88, that's what I've got. If 7's front & 8's rear is the stock configuration, that's what I have instead of 7 & 9.

As for usage, I need to sit down and crunch some numbers. This car is not my daily driver. But I have put many more miles on it than I'd planned when I bought it in July. 148K then, 158K after 6 months. Yow! I "should" not put so many miles on it but what can I say? I have grown to love driving this thing. But I guess I need to back off some because I don't want to put 20K/year+ miles on my car. Well I do, but you know what I mean

I'm just heading into my first full season of track stuff. The closest track is about 75 miles away 1 way (Barber) and the furthest I'd likely go would be to Road Atlanta (about 250 miles 1 way). That's a lot of road driving for some track tires, and I hear you about "wasting" track tires with all these road miles.

A local Pelican has tentatively offered me the use of a set of his old track wheels to put some track tires on, and that is a great idea (thanks if you are reading! I guess I will be giving you a call!), but then I get into the problem of getting the wheels and tires to the track, which means into the car. Along with me and all my crap. I know it's been done, and I've seen some pretty neat roof-mounts for carrying tires on a 911, but I wasn't really planning on all that.

So much for plans, huh?

Seriously, I don't have a trailer hitch (and I will not be putting one of those on the 911) so they would have to go in or on the car. Do any of you manage to fit your track tires INTO your car for the trip? I can see me now cruising to Atlanta, a stack of tires piled up in the passenger seat next to me. Would they even fit there? My back seat room is limited because the seats are folded down "permanently" (unless/until I remove the stereo speakers cut into the back panel which juts out & holds the back seats down - again, no plans to undo/redo all that). I guess I need to do some experimenting, take off a wheel or 2, and see if and how they'd actually fit into my car.

As for slicks, even if I go for some dedicated track tires, I'm going to stay way from slicks for now because of their limits on use for dry weather only. If I have slicks and it rains, I either have to run my road tires in competition, or sit out. Plus, I don't think I'm quite ready for slicks. I have very little seat time so far, a 1-day DE and a couple of AXs. That's it. So far.

[Bill Verburg]

You need to look at the back of the wheel spokes for the wheel width and o/s

Those appear to be normal Carrera rotors, long studs and 930 wheel spacers which are not normally used on a Carrera, have 930 flares been added at some point.

[Bill Verburg]

Just as an additional datum,
stock wheels in '88 on a 911 were, x15 Fuchs
7 ET23.3
8 ET10.6

optional were, x16 Fuchs
6 ET36
7 ET23.3

This is pure speculation on my part but the stated and visual facts support it,
You may have 944 Fuchs in back(951.xxx.xxx.xx, either 7 ET23.3 or 8 ET23.3), either of the 944 wheels would want a spacer.

[911st]

Show us a picture of your rims on your car.

205/225 works best on most Fuchs. If you did have 9's then 245's.

Agree that Toyo RA1 or R888's are the best of breed 16" track tire that can be driven on the street. Shaved RA1's are fastest if your car has been stiffened up. The R888's work with less neg camber and I suspect is better on a stock car.

Mich Sport Cups are a great tire that dose not seem to require as much neg camber to run but are pricey.

I bought the Dunlop Z1's (Star Spec) and love them. Not complaints on the track and extremely controlled with brake away(drift car approved). They are a bargain price. Go to Tirerack.com and click the Tests, and Reviews section. These tires are almost a DOT race tire and make by the tire company for the street & track.



I love my Z1's.

[VroomGrrl]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Just as an additional datum,
stock wheels in '88 on a 911 were, x15 Fuchs
7 ET23.3
8 ET10.6

optional were, x16 Fuchs
6 ET36
7 ET23.3

This is pure speculation on my part but the stated and visual facts support it,
You may have 944 Fuchs in back(951.xxx.xxx.xx, either 7 ET23.3 or 8 ET23.3), either of the 944 wheels would want a spacer.

As well prepared as I thought I was in looking at and buying this car, I'm amazed at the wealth of detail that was just lost on me. I'm thankful for an awesome PO and the mechanic who did my PPI, both of whom I had to trust at in choosing this car. Obviously in my case, in large measure, this was blind trust. Thankfully, well placed. Anyway!

Now that I have my head around some of this a little better, I clearly need to take a close look and see what exactly I have here.

Photos:



I do not have flares or rolled fenders - the 1" spacers take me juuuust inside the fender as is. I like the look, and while I've never driven it set up in any other way, I suspect the slightly widened wheel base may have its benefits in handling. Or so goes the theory!

[Dixie]

Whatever is stock for wheels in the 88, that's what I've got.

6" front, and 7" rear was standard on an '88 Carrera.

You definitely don't have 9" rims. You'd never get them under the rear of a regular Carrera with those spacers. As an example, here's three photos of my '88 with 8.5" BBS rims in the rear. No spacers. The wheel openings are full. In fact, I had to roll the rear lips just a tad.

[911st]

Front are 6's, assume back is the very typical 7's.

205/225's are perfect.

Get some Dunlops Z1's and drive the wheels off it.

[Noel]

Once you figure out the size wheels you have, I'm betting 7s and 8s, I would stick with a street tire such as Kumho MXs as a good combo tire, and they are dirt cheap at around $100 each. Don't go with a sticky track tires until you get 40 or more track days under your belt. You will learn more with a harder tire as the car will slide more. Moving to sticky tires too early will mask errors and hamper the learning.

You will be WAY faster in the long run this way.

Good luck!!!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

6" front, and 7" rear was standard on an '88 Carrera.

Nope, in '87 6 & 7 x15 Telephone dials were standard w/ 195/65 & 215/60 tires options were Fuchs 7 & 8 x15 w/185/70 & 215/60 or 6 & 7 x16 w/ 205/55 & 225/50 or 7 & 8x16 w/ 205/55 & 225/50 these latter were likely dealer installed otions rather than factory but there are claims to the contrary , for '88 std was 7 & 8 x15 Fuchs w/ the same 16" options as in '87. Though there were some specials w/ different std wheels like the CS. Then in '89 std became 6 & 8 x16 w/ 205/55 & 225/50

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

You definitely don't have 9" rims. You'd never get them under the rear of a regular Carrera with those spacers. As an example, here's three photos of my '88 with 8.5" BBS rims in the rear. No spacers. The wheel openings are full. In fact, I had to roll the rear lips just a tad.

How a 9 fits depends on the o/s or ET. 9" Fuchs have ET15 and are sometimes used w/ small spacers. You're 9s obviously have a lower ET probably in the 5 - 10 range