The engine doesn't want to go in! (engine install)
 

Ok, I suppose this is the time where I admit either (a) I'm stupid, or (b) that the Porsche is stupid. So I need some help since the Porsche doesn't response to my explicit shouts at her.

I took out the 2.7 that was in my 1976 and am putting in a 1981 3.0L. Did all the prep work and this weekend was suppose to be the weekend where the engine went in and the car came back to life. Well, not quite so.

I jacked the car up the 30+ inches required to get the engine under, and then tried a number of things.

(1) Jacking the engine up to meet the transmission
(2) Lowering the car to meet the engine lowered on the ATV jack
(3) Raising and lowering the transmission to try to hit that sweetspot

None of these (and combinations thereof) worked. The fan either would not clear the lip on the back or the starter bolt was too long. I was about an inch off, at best!

Please help. Is there a certain height that the car should be? The transmission should be? The engine should be? . . . where the engine and transmission MAGICALLY align? Or do I need to summon the porsche gods through some ancient beer drinking ritual and try again?

Again, please help.

If the car is at a angle cause of the rear being jacked in the air.

Try raising the front of the car to level it out a bit. Then for every inch you move the motor
back, jack the engine up 1/2 inch until everything meets up!

I always drop engine/tranny together separate on the ground, put back together on ground then re-install together, I know this might not seem to help right now but it may be an alternative to your current frustration.

I will try the "jacking up the front of the car" bit tonight. And then I'll try the engine/tranny part, if the first try doesn't work.

But I still don't see how jacking up the front of the car will help me gain clearance for the fan. It seems like for every inch I gain of clearance for the starter bolt I lose twice as much of clearance for the fan.

Yep. I don't think I'd fight with it any more. I'd cut my losses and pull the tranny and mate it to the engine, then install as a single unit. That's just me...I'm sure if you fight with it long enough, you'll get it.

Sorry to hear of your frustrations:(

Is the clutch fork engaged properly when mating the tranny?

I found this whole operation (solo) difficult enough with the engine and tranny out of the car. I can imagine it would be very frustrating to attempt to mate them with the tranny still in the car without a lift and good engine jack.

Your engine/tranny is connected prior to installing correct?

Just installed my motor last weekend...high level view was

Get motor cleared and into engine bay
Lift motor high enough to get the tranny mount bolts started (not tightened yet)
Jack front of car to level out a bit
Jack engine high enough to get rear motor mount bolts started.

If the tranny bolts are in, there is no reason the rest of the engine should not align in the back?
I mean you may have to nudge it left/right but certainly the fan shroud should not be hitting the rear crossmember?

A Thought
 

I really didn't want to take the fan off, but has anyone done this to make it fit?

Or, obviously it sounds like a lot of guys have other suggestions. I'm open to anything. So keep 'em coming.

have you disconnected the shift coupler inside the car to allow the tranny to drop far enough.i install these motors by myself and have never removed fan to install. you have missed a step on removal of the 2.7?

ed

Try lowering the tranny with a smaller jack of its own. this should put the tranny at an angle sloping down towards the rear of the car.

Tilting the front of the engine up with a second jack should aligne the thru bolts enough to get them slid on there a bit . then just raise the engine more (As tho you were pushing it on an uphill slope) and it should all slide together.

there isnt enough space to mate the engine and tranny while they are both level to the ground. The engine needs to go up at a slight angle

Ive dropped the engine both ways, without the tranny attached is quicker it just takes a little more finese. My engine literaly sits on the arm of the floor jack and goes up at the same angle as the arm and i can still push it forward using the jack.

Good luck and take it slow and easy. If all else fails I'm with the others on removing tranny and then attaching for the install.

Yes, engine was connected to tranny prior to installing (the old 2.7 motor).

Yes, the fan shroud does hit the rear crossmember.

Ed, yes I disconnected the coupler.

It's the issue of having enough room on both sides (tranny side and fan shroud side).

the only thing i can think of is that your tranny mounts are not allowing tranny to drop far enough or they are worn and the tranny is shifted to rear of car.

i let tranny hang as far down as it will go and block it up so shift rod isnt holding the wieght. and guis it all to gather from lowest point possible, ijust did this same change in a 75 2.7 out 78 3.0 in.

theres not alot of room to play with but an inch is a foot when installing a 911 motor.

ed

i was helping Rick out this weekend with the car, and i wanted to chime in. this sounds like it might actually be the issue. we don't need a ton of room to do this, but it seemed like there is something that is harder about this install than other folks described. if the transmission is too far back (towards the rear of the car) or not dropping down enough, that would explain our mysterious lack of clearance.

can the transmission be moved back without taking it off or redoing the mounts? any thoughts?

im not really sure on the mounts or moving the tranny while in car. but im thinking you had motor wieght from the 2.7 to pull tranny down a bit further to allow it to slide back while clearing rear crossmember.

maybe you have sport mounts and they simply wont allow tranny to drop down without help. look inside car with tranny hanging free and see how your shift rod looks it should be at the top of the hole in chassis, if not this is why you arent clearing, you may have to remove tranny to get engine in.

ed

Thanks Ed. That was really helpful.

drop it as a unit
 

I never took out a 911 motor before until a couple of months ago. I was at work so time is never on you side. I followed the pelican engine drop tech article and no crap in my lunch hour with help from a coworker and no lift (except jacks) we had the motor and tranny sitting out of the car. Plus trying to line up the clutch fork through the inspection hole that is located on top of the trans seems tough trying to do it in the car.
I actually thought when it was done that I must have forgot something because it went to easily.

Thanks Sleepy for rubbing it in.

Hi Rick -
I'm not an expert by any means. I've dropped my engine a few times solo - always WITH the trans. attached. It's not that much more work - CVs and 2 bolts - piece of cake. I think the time spent pulling the tranny will more than offset the difficulties you're having now. JMHO.

Tom

I have had my engine in and out so many times. Make sure your shifting coupler is out of the way, slide the output shaft of the tranny in first, then lift the motor in straight up, that was the best way of doing it......I wonder if haveijng a short bodied car would make a diff. Never thought about that before....

thanks, but the entire issue is a lack of clearance to "just slide the output shaft" in. seems the issue might be a transmission mount one, so we have to go down that route.

anyone else had issues with transmission mounting interfering with engine install? pipe up if you have "sport" transmission mounts too - someone here thought they could be contributing to the problem.

I've done it both ways but at this point, if you are having problems you really are better off dropping the transmission to. Its just two more bolts, speedo and the reverse light plug. Quit struggling with it and try this approach.

You forgot about the CV joints, but I agree with you.

Looks like in the next few days I'll be taking out the trans. Guess it's something else to learn how to do on the Porsche. Cool (sort of).

Good idea, Not to mention a good time to clean up the box, replace the oil and inspect the axles :)

Since you're gonna . . . . . . :D

Make sure you replace your shift rod seal and input shaft seal. Cheap and easy.

Oh man, I hear the words "while you're in there" chiming down from the Porsche Gods already.

Come on guys. I'm a young guy and on a budget!

The only extra stuff is cheap, Oil and a few very cheap seals. Money well spent.....and not much to boot.

Those aren't allens...get a CV joint tool...

I'm not sure you absolutely need to remove the axles. If you are just looking to drop it down slightly so you can align and mate it to the engine you might be able to get away with putting a jack under it and sliding it backwards/down slightly. A free "while you are in there" is to check the tightness of your CV bolts.

Do you mean there is an appropriate torque value for the CV bolts? I haven't messed with them before.

Confirm parts
 

Do you mean parts 999-113-327-40-M30 and 999-113-185-40-M30?

"Is the clutch fork engaged properly when mating the tranny?"

+1

If the clutch fork is not engaging properly on the throw-out bearing, the input shaft will slide through the pressure plate and into the pilot bearing, but you'll end up with the clearance issue you are talking about ... 1". The clutch fork needs to be rotated slightly to clear the rearmost section of the throw-out bearing and then allow the other flange of the bearing to rotate it into position for operation.

Get everything lined up and square, then look through the gap between the bellhousing and motor with a flashlight, align the clutch fork properly and slide the motor back.

Like this -
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1235068861.jpg

deanp

let me clarify. we can't even get the engine close enough to the trans to have this problem. on the back (fan shroud side) there is not enough room to manuver to successfully mate into the trans side. Literally to get enough clearance (and then, there's still not enough) the engine starter bolt on the engine has to go inside the trans to clear enough room for the fan shoad. Does that make sense?

It's hard to explain. But I hope that makes sense.

OK, let's take a step back real quick.

The problem Rick and I are having (I'm helping him on the install) is NOT a clutch fork alignment problem.

The engine does not even have enough clearance to mate up properly with the main shaft coming out of the transmission. We are not even at the point where the clutch fork could interfere with the installation yet. We are still too far away.

The actual issue is that with no clearance for the fan at the rear lip of the engine bay, the pilot bearing gets hung up under the main shaft on the transmission. We can't move the engine back more to lift it up and get the shaft in. It's just hopelessly stuck.

Thus, we moved the engine and transmission up and down in various combinations, but no luck. We always got hung up under the main shaft with the pilot bearing contacting it.

I hope this clarifies the issue. I wish we had taken a picture of the pilot bearing as it was. I think we'll have to drop the transmission to fix this issue.

PICS!!!



Doyle

Drop the tranny and go from there.......

How about just removing the Fan assembly? Just a thought.

So the shift coupler is pressed up pretty good to the top of the tunnel. Working off my bberry and don't have a camera. But I think this is part of my problem.

Okay. Sorry to make this thread like twitter . . . but I need advice.

Since the coupler doesn't appear to be disconnect it, do I disconnect it now with the engine out? Could that bend the shift rod?

I'm searching for my camera . . .