Polybronze+torsion bar install issues: please advise

[Deschodt]

Install them yourself, they said.. It's easy they said ;-)

I got a set of front and rear Polybronze bushings and torsion bars from the good Chuck at Elephant racing... Actually they are not the problem, dismantling the suspension is...

We tried the front first because it's supposedly easier... Except it's not when the effing wedge bolt does not want to unwedge itself...



I checked the board (wonders of the 21st century, wireless laptop in the garage) and apparently I am not alone in this... heat, BFH (well biggest hammer I could find), nope...

So we're thinking about trying the other way around and undoing the ball joint nut...
The thing under the washer there, but it takes a special wrench that we may have to make...



Anybody in the tampa bay area has this and is willing to lend it for the cause ? Any reason not to go that route ?

So, mildly frustrated we tried the rear... It got funnier...

With the arm off we melted the rubber bond to the metal... It takes longer than you think !



That gave us that mess to clean...easily done with a wire wheel...



Then glued the perfectly fitting Polybronze bushing sleeve..



The fun came later, here:



The #$%@ torsion bar on the passenger side was stuck in the car. It would not budge... We had to go buy a huge crow bar and tighten a vice extra tight, heated it a little, banged a little, shot kroil and it eventually came off !!! Like an hour later... Put the new one in (27mm) and fot some reason had to pull it out again, but the rubber plug at the end of it stayed in !!! no idea why or how, but it came off the other side eventually when we did the other side's torsion bar... (so I have 75% plugged hollow torsion bars now)

Now for irony, on the driver side, the torsion bar came right off the car....but was stuck in the spring plate (radius arm cover per haynes). Now try to undo "that"... you have even less grip on things... Major PITA, more heat, crow bar, and it eventually gave after some blood was sacrificed to the cause....

The polybronze bushings on the other hand went in like butter, the only hard part is to reattach the 2 parts of the arm together as they obviously don't want to stay aligned to each other with the torsion bar in... Anyway, some creative use of a jack, a leveling tool and the rear is done... Probably not level, but driveable to an alignment/ride height adjustment place...

In conclusion for now, the polybronze bushings are lovely parts, they fit perfectly, are a damn good idea if you ask me, look smooth and well made and I never want to do this again... and it was a pleasure to grease them for the first time (reminded me of my 356 with its 14 grease nipples). Now I just wish I could do the front end, as I am now on 27mm rear TB and stock fronts (17??) on squeaky old bushings !!! Looks like I should probably order new wedge bolts and an even bigger effing hammer though.. Any advice on those ? I searched, I swear...

Greg.

[Elombard]

Hmm thats not hard thats fun..:-) srsly!

I banged on my wedge bolts for a bit and they came out. So no help. Also you could take the top of the strut loose from the chassis and leave the entire assembly connected together when you take it out of the car. I think thats actually what I did on the first one. ....Then you can put mono balls at the strut tops too...while your in there :-)

I hope you look back on the project fondly in a few months.

Next time it will come apart really easy :-)

[GaryR]

Those wedge bolts in front can really be jammed in there. When I rebuilt my SC and 930 fronts I dropped the whole front suspension and worked on it on the floor and bench. Heat, Kroil, a 3LB hammer, and sometimes a drift are the tools of choice for the wedge pin. Use Never-Seize on the new one! The ball joint nut should also be soaked in Kroil for a couple days and heat applied. I used a 1/2" drive air impact gun with the proper castle nut socket. Trick was to be sure and have good pressure on the socket so it doesn't slip out. All this can be done in car also of course. I wouldn't do a suspension rebuild without new ball joints, they are cheap and quite important if the slightest bit questionable.

[JWLindsey]

For the wedge bolts, you might also try putting a jack under the A-Arm and raising the assembly ever so slightly to relieve some pressure on the bolt before you whack it. Mine came out fairly easily, but then again that was with a bone dry AZ car that had never seen much junk and corrosion under there.

Good luck and enjoy the stank of burning rubber when you get the old bushings nice and toasty. Yeech.

-JWL

[blk911]

Greg,

If you don't have the ball joint nut off already, take an air chisel to it to back it off. You'll ruin it, but good idea to use new ones anyway.

I just did mine, not a lot of fun, but at $90/hr...........

[Elombard]

Also, I heard that you can buy Ford socket to remove the ball joint...cheaper and more commonly available.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by JWLindsey

For the wedge bolts, you might also try putting a jack under the A-Arm and raising the assembly ever so slightly to relieve some pressure on the bolt before you whack it. Mine came out fairly easily, but then again that was with a bone dry AZ car that had never seen much junk and corrosion under there.

Good luck and enjoy the stank of burning rubber when you get the old bushings nice and toasty. Yeech.

-JWL

Oh, we did thst too, did not help but we'll try again...and yes, my wife enjoyed the smell of burning rubber, for sure... ;-)

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by JWLindsey

For the wedge bolts, you might also try putting a jack under the A-Arm and raising the assembly ever so slightly to relieve some pressure on the bolt before you whack it.

-JWL

X2... This is what I did to mine and they came out OK... Mine were in good shape but I bought new ones anyway. I also used heaps of WD40... Soak them real good and leave them for a while. I didn't use heat... just a good wack!

Try tapping it from the other side as well to break the bond.

[Deschodt]

Assuming I go the ball joint route instead of the wedge pin whacking thing... no need to remove the damn threaded pin/wedge bolt. The ball joint looks really new and nice, do I really need "new" ball joints nuts and new ball joints? Looks like a strong nut to me, is it only good once?

I don't want to skimp on suspension parts, but those really don't look bad, I'd have to wait at least a week for an order from pelican, are they not reusable? I could get the tool only for $200 less than all the parts and maybe even a Ford part that seems similar...

[Goth]

Hi Greg,

I've noticed hammers and impact wrenches don't have the same effect when the part is some what move-able. Both methods are only effective when the energy from the blow is of short duration and high energy. Anything movable, loosely, or, rubber mounted ends up spreading the energy out over a longer period of time. This ends up greatly reducing the desired energy spike.

Example:
A hammer hit of 1x / duration of 1x = 1x MAX energy spike
A hammer hit of 1x / duration of 0.5x = 2x MAX energy spike

I'm not that smart and my math may be flawed. So please forgive me if I'm doing a terrible job of explaining it.

The bottom line is: Put an anvil (or some solid heavy object) behind the strut, or a socket backed by something really heavy behind the wedge bolt. This will greatly increase the effectiveness of the hammer blow. I've even had success putting my 2 lb sledge on the back side and hitting the front side with a ball peen hammer.

I hope this helps,

[efhughes3]

I see you're in FL. If that is where the car has been, that could be why its fighting you. All of mine went thru like a breeze. I think Chuck sells the wedge bolts-bang away.

[Chuck Moreland]

Glad to hear that at least the Polybronze install went smoothly.

For the wedge pins, you need a bigger hammer.

If you choose to remove the threaded rings, you don't want to use the porsche tool. It's function is for installation, not removal.

To remove the threaded ring, use a BFH and a large blunt chisel. Put the chisel in the notches and hammer away. Move from one notch to the next. Do soak with penetrating oil first.

That didn't work? use a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to slit the side of the ring, then use the chisel and hammer.

[175K911]

FWIW, when I did my front ER Polybronze, I did it with the control arms still on the car so I never had to unbolt the ball joints. I was able to get the old rubber bushings off and JB Welded the new pieces on by carefully suspending the control arm so as to not damage the ball joint or it's boot.

[Evans, Marv]

Goth's advise on putting something behind the area where the wedge bolt is to brace it is good. I found out if you bang the threaded side of the wedge bolt enough, it will start to mushroom out even if you use a punch. If it comes to that, you might have to cut the threaded part off and continue with the BFH & a decent punch. If they're in there that tight, I'd want to replace them & put anti-sieze on the new ones.

[vash]

wedge pin. sacrifice a cheap socket on the back side, and use a big c-clamp. load it up, and then tap it with any hammer. small, large, rubber,,,whatever. it will shoot out.

[BryanM]

Greg. i like Vash's idea. i have a giant C-clamp and plent of old sockets i don't care about. not sure if i can come by tomorrow. already getting "comments" from the wife. i can probably drop a few things off if you want.

[SteveinTO]

I found it's all a lot easier to take the whole suspension corner off and work on the bench. There's a thread somewhere about drilling the ball joint/castle nut assembly in a couple places (without touching the A-arm). Then wail on it with the BFH & chisel.

For the wedge pin, again your whacking ability is greatly enhanced by supporting the opposite side with a something solid, like the aforementioned anvil.

The advantage to disassembling the whole thing on the bench, is it's ultimately easier, you get to check other things you're skipping, and then the clean pieces are easier to assemble. And none of it involves laying upside-down on the shop floor.

Oh yeah, eye protection at all times when employing the BFH.

[glennspiegler]

My ball joints were recently replaced, then I wanted to do struts and bushings, left the ball joint intact and took it off as one unit described above. Worked fine.

[burgermeister]

I'm going to go against the common wisdom and suggest using a lighter hammer (16oz maybe) on the wedge bolt. Leave the nut on it.

This is based on the assumption that you can swing a lighter hammer significantly faster (higher striking velocity) than a heavier hammer.

I also think Vash's suggestion is an excellent one. Preload + impact might just do the trick.


For the balljoint nut, one of mine came off with a rattle gun, the other one I drilled a hole into the nut along the axis of the nut (the idea being to cut a hole-shaped, internal "slot" into the nut, but use a drill bit to do it because access is so crappy). A couple of chisel blows afterwards, and it came right off.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

If you choose to remove the threaded rings, you don't want to use the porsche tool. It's function is for installation, not removal.

To remove the threaded ring, use a BFH and a large blunt chisel. Put the chisel in the notches and hammer away. Move from one notch to the next. Do soak with penetrating oil first.

+ 1. Sacrifice the ring. Heat + penetrating oil.

My local parts store had a multi socket kit (for diffs maybe?) that they loan out that had a socket that fit the ring for re-installation.

Ian