home alignment-shameless plug

[s_morrison57]

Hi
I just finished my first 4 wheel home alignment , took about a day but i did it over 3 days a bit at a time, tracks straight and feels good and with the 400 or so that I saved (canadian price) I can get some more goodies from wayne. The shameless plug is the booklet I used from Ray Scruggs , a must have for all 911 DIY'ers, if your interested It's $10.00 and Ray's mail is raystrax@yahoo.com
I don't know if I'm allowed to plug this on this forum, but it's a real money saver, and I'm not affiliated with Ray in any way other than saving money by using his booklet and procedure.
Scott

[RoninLB]

it's worth every penny in process explain and 911 details

and makes the process less intimidating

[tomphot]

$400 CAD? I have a great P guy that's doing mine for $115 - Am I getting that great of a deal?

[lateapex911]

whats in the booklet?

[911pcars]

No procedure for checking/adjusting caster.

Otherwise, it's okay.

Sherwood

[ZOA NOM]

Originally Posted by tomphot

$400 CAD? I have a great P guy that's doing mine for $115 - Am I getting that great of a deal?

That's about $28.75 per hour. I'd say that's a great deal. Unless he's not actually doing it correctly, which should take all of four hours for a pro.

[tomphot]

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

That's about $28.75 per hour. I'd say that's a great deal. Unless he's not actually doing it correctly, which should take all of four hours for a pro.

So - other than waiting 10k miles and seeing how the tires wear - how do you tell if your getting a good job without short cuts?
This same guy is doing some other work on the car so maybe I'm getting a quantity discount.

[ZOA NOM]

Originally Posted by tomphot

So - other than waiting 10k miles and seeing how the tires wear - how do you tell if your getting a good job without short cuts?
This same guy is doing some other work on the car so maybe I'm getting a quantity discount.

You ask him how long it took. If less than 4 hours, he cut some corners. A full four wheel alignment on these cars is not for the faint hearted. My mechanic gave me a full Saturday on his alignment rack with his assistance to show me why he would charge me $400 to do the job. I spent the entire day (6 hours plus) doing it myself, and learned very quickly that anyone who says they can give these cars a decent alignment in less than four hours is exaggerating. The interrelationships between the four corners will drive you nuts.

[s_morrison57]

How do you know your getting a good deal? You ask him the spec's he set the car to, from my racing days I still have my camber , castor and bump steer gauges , also have real accurate corner scales so it is a bit easier for me to do the set up but with Rays booklet you don't need all that fancy stuff, I had it from my formula car days. I did pay over 400 Canuck for my first alignment , I didn't say anything when I took the car in and when I got home with my light weight wallet I rolled it up on the scales, just for fun, and the car was way off, worse than when I took it in, put the camber gauge on and got diff. reading accross the front and back . I called the guy and he said bring it in - well forget it - wouldn't take a fiat to the guy(fix it again Tony) . Took me about a week to source Ray's booklet and the did it myself and I did a better job than that jerk off did with his fancy alignment rack, and he's the guy that was recomended as "the best for P cars" he probably let his flunkie do the job. Well my cherry's popped and this is one thing I will always do myself from now on. Intimidation was the only thing that stopped me from trying it in the beginning, I'm no expert, but I'm better than the guy I took it to, maybe I just care more cause the car is mine,and all he cares about is my money. Get the booklet and DIY.

[ZOA NOM]

Originally Posted by s_morrison57

Get the booklet and DIY.

+1

DIY is the best way to be certain it's done right. Nobody cares as much about your car as you do. You'll also gain some really good knowledge in the process. You'll be surprised how close you can get the alignment with simple tools right in your own (flat) garage.

[tomphot]

Thanks guys - I had one P guy tell me that he could do it for $350 and an extra $150 for corner scales.
I thought that was high as in Wayne's book, he has an alignment listed as a 2 hour job.
When this other P guy told me $115, I thought that was more in line.
Now you have me thinking I should have the first guy do it.
Question - as I am only doing street driving, What would the corner scales do for me - is it worth getting it done?

[berettafan]

Paying $199 at a very high tech shop owned by a guy who's raced Rolex series and also club racing. He told me flat out the good price is done because its a good way to get new customers introduced to the shop. If it goes well I'll be using them as my "dammit I'm stuck!" people.

Probably will order the scruggs info after I see how this is done.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by tomphot

Question - as I am only doing street driving, What would the corner scales do for me - is it worth getting it done?

I think it is. Your car is old enough to warrant a corner balance.

What it does is make sure the two front wheels are carrying the same weight left and right. Same with the rears.

I don't know the history of your car but a PO may have done some adjustment or attempted lowering in his/her garage. It seems simple to do this on a 911 but if not done properly the weight on each wheel may become different.

Think of it like this. In an extreme case the front left torsion bar and rear right torsion bar could both be wound up tighter than the other two. What this means is the car will sit straight but will handle differently depending on weather you're turning right or left.

Porsche were extra careful at the factory to make sure no cars were accidental set up like this. They checked every car at the end of the production line using corner scales.

I would bet that after doing the corner balance that your car feels better to drive.

[Oh Haha]

Corner balancing will make your car drive better and perform as it was intended when called on to do so.

i did the "tri=pod" method last year and realised mine was off even though the ride height was dead on.

It made a huge difference once I set it up correctly.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

i did the "tri=pod" method last year and realised mine was off even though the ride height was dead on.

What's the "tri=pod" method? Please explain

[Oh Haha]

Sorry, I should have included the link in the post.

Corner Balancing, Weight Jacking, Tripod Method


EDIT: this method is NOT a substitute for an alignment but I would suggest it as another method to check the set up. In my case, I had an alignment done but felt the car was still "off" in the feeling. being a DIY'er, I wanted to check it and found my problem. I even shared the info with the shop that does my alignments.
They are hot rod guys so they thought it was pretty cool.

[lateapex911]

Keep in mind a corner weighting can only go so far on cars equipped with stock sway bar links. Once the car is weighted, the reconnection of the sway bars will affect the result.

If there are plans for suspension work that includes sway bars or at least adjustable links, do that before scaling.

Home alignments are pretty easy with a couple simple tools. And lasers make it even easier.

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

No procedure for checking/adjusting caster.

Otherwise, it's okay.

Sherwood

On a 911, luckily the caster is real easy to check. Since the balljoint is concentric with the strut, the side view angle of the strut from vertical is the caster.

Cars with macpherson front ends are not so simple ... probably requires measuring camber changes for given steer angles to back out the caster.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

On a 911, luckily the caster is real easy to check. Since the balljoint is concentric with the strut, the side view angle of the strut from vertical is the caster.

Cars with macpherson front ends are not so simple ... probably requires measuring camber changes for given steer angles to back out the caster.

Your observation is correct. However, the vehicle must be absolutely level to measure accurately, or one must extrapolate between actual strut angle and existing floor angle.

BTW, the Porsche front suspension is a McPherson design.

Sherwood

[lateapex911]

I'm sure that I'll get flamed for this, but i tend to adjust caster by feel. The 911 steering feel is so awesome, and the way it feels and drives is, for me, the bottom line, caster-wise.