'69E resto questions

[rdelmendo]

All-

I have just about finished stripping my '69E. I plan on sending to get media blasted in a couple of weeks and then work on the few areas of metal work that are needed. The car is matching numbers and apparently stock with the exception of the hydropneumatic from suspension.

My questions to the experts are what direction I should take this project. As you can see from the questions, I'm swaying between keeping it stock and mild easily reversible performance upgrades (no flares and weight loss program for this project).

1. Door panels - This car was missing the door pockets. I personally like the plain RS panels. Another factor is cost, door pockets for '69-'73 cars are outrageous. Anyone have a set cheap that I can restore or should I go appbiz?

2. Bumper trim - Probably should have the wide molding which is missing on the front as are the front guards. I like the look of painted on black strip. Thoughts of this on a E vs. S front bumper?

3. Rocker deco - Non existent on the car. Leave off or get reproductions?

4. 14" Fuchs - 4 are in surprisingly good shape. The spare has a nasty case of curb rash. Keep or swap out for a set of 15" or deep dish 16"?

5. Suspension - There are no anti-roll or sway bars front or back. What should I add to make this car handle well?

[jluetjen]

Here's my $0.02...

Originally Posted by rdelmendo

All-

I have just about finished stripping my '69E. I plan on sending to get media blasted in a couple of weeks and then work on the few areas of metal work that are needed. The car is matching numbers and apparently stock with the exception of the hydropneumatic from suspension.

My questions to the experts are what direction I should take this project. As you can see from the questions, I'm swaying between keeping it stock and mild easily reversible performance upgrades (no flares and weight loss program for this project). If you're going to be keeping the car original, it's like being pregnant. The car is either original or it isn't. Being "a little bit original" can wind up being expensive and still "devalue" the car. You can save money by not going original, or you can increase value by keeping the car original. So my suggestion is figure out what you want to accomplish.

1. Door panels - This car was missing the door pockets. I personally like the plain RS panels. Another factor is cost, door pockets for '69-'73 cars are outrageous. Anyone have a set cheap that I can restore or should I go appbiz?

2. Bumper trim - Probably should have the wide molding which is missing on the front as are the front guards. I like the look of painted on black strip. Thoughts of this on a E vs. S front bumper?

3. Rocker deco - Non existent on the car. Leave off or get reproductions?

4. 14" Fuchs - 4 are in surprisingly good shape. The spare has a nasty case of curb rash. Keep or swap out for a set of 15" or deep dish 16"? It's kind of hard to get a set of tires for the 14" wheels with adequate side-wall profile. Sure you can get a low profile tire for the 14" wheels -- I have a friend who has 60 profile tires on 14" wheels. But the result will be a car that it about 15% undergeared which can be very annoying when driving on the highway. You'll also find that the car is very low which will result in speed bumps seeming like small walls. I've got 15" wheels with 60 profile tires and I found the engine speed on the highway being too high for my taste. To make a long story short, I'd only use the 14" wheels if you are going to auto-cross the car, or use 70 or 75 profile tires. Otherwise I'd switch to 15's or 16's.

5. Suspension - There are no anti-roll or sway bars front or back. What should I add to make this car handle well?I've got the stock sway bar sizes for the optional "S" handling package which is 15 mm sway bars front and rear on my car. Alternatively, the "E" could also be had with a 13 mm sway bar in the front with no sway bar in the rear. If in doubt, get an adjustable sway bar which will allow you to fine-tune your set-up. For street use, I'm happy with the 15 mm bars front and rear.

[Zeke]

I can't be objective on this. I'm an R Gruppe member.

15 x7 wheels, no trim. 19 mm sways, Koni Sports and 21/27 t-bars.

[RSBob]

While you are evaluating deco and rocker panels versus stripes or 'painted on stripe' here's what I did on my '73. I personally like the S front bumper, but taste is very individual - group votes don't work too well on aesthetics.

I filled in the existing holes and then striped over them - the beauty is that it is easily reversible if you want to go back to the classic look.

And Milt can't be objective - but he is easily forgiven for that.

Note: My door is ajar.

[Rich Lambert]

I agree with Rick...this time.

[signature65]

Its all personal taste.....I took off my rockers and bumper trim. Here is Before and After shots.

[Tachin]

I would suggest you think about what you want to do with the car long term.

I have a 69E and considered some of the same things. The car was owned by my mother, who grew up in Ludwigsburg right next to Zuffenhausen, and we used to ride around in the back seat before child seats were required. Luckily it stayed in the family and I hope to have it and pass it down to my kids if they develop an interest. otherwise, I'll drive it till I'm 100. In considering what I wanted to do with the car, value wasn't really a concern - because I never plan on selling it.

I wish I could do a full resto like you right now, but it would probably take me 10 years and I would rather drive it as much as possible right now. To that end I wanted to make the car sweet but also try to keep it as original as possible.

I got a set of deep 6s, H1s, 15 mm sways front and rear, oil fed tentioners, Boge shocks, all new bushings, and oil lines. I bought a steel front spoiler but decided not to use it. I might take off the fog lights and two US bumper guards on the front because it's 69 and I like that rounded nose too. Someday I might do some repro sport seats and store the original seats.

[gsjohnson]

I have a pair of restorable door pockets from my door pocket resto project. I won't give them away, but you could have them for a reasonable price. PM me if you're interested.

And pardon me if a disagree with some of the previous posts, but I think that you can have a very nice personized 911 with tasteful modifications, yet remaining mostly stock without effecting the perceived value. Just save all of the original parts that you remove and don't cut the car up to do them. ie. Momo steering wheel, period correct Recaros, exhaust, front strut brace, etc.

[signature65]

I totally agree with keeping the ability to return the car to stock fairly easily. I didnt fill any of my rocker holes or bumper trim holes. In fact if you look closly you can see them under the black trim tape on the bumpers. But you gotta know they are there to look.

Oh and those yellow lights are just lexan covers that come off with two thumb screws.

[BReyes]

I like the direction you are taking to restore upgrade the vehicle. Do you know how it was when delivered new?

Increased performance means increased fun. I can't argue with that.

But recently I have seen less and less original looking cars and when done right, they definitely bring the wow factor. Since your build is going to be fresh, I bet original trim will really make it pop visually, whereas if go without some trim pieces, and add RS door panels, and fat rubber, as you mention, it would seem that you are more interested in how it performs.

Therefore.

1. Door panels . Original style for the E.

2. Bumper trim. Yes . Nice to have some bumperettes if they came with them new, if not I would leave them off.

3. Rocker deco. If I have to say with or with out, I would say to make it as delivered when new.( Though I seem to be unable to easily say regarding the rocker moulding with out considering the whole package including your color).

4. Fuchs. I would say go with the biggest that will fit and also run the 14s some days.

5. Suspension. You could easily head off the slippery slope here. I would have to say to rebuild the suspension to stock, upgraded for increased fun at speed.

Regards,

[t6dpilot]

What Milt said I guess I am biased too. I have to agree with many of the opinions here. What ever you do, keep it easily reversible. Personally, I like the rocker deco et al if you are staying stock. If you don't have all the trim pieces in good shape, then it could get kind of expensive trying to obtain nice OE pieces. Go for the clean look and tape over the holes. If you don't have any that are rusted larger than the original hole, you can do this and will be very hard to notice. Or weld like my car...

Regarding the interior, from a guy who has put lots of miles in period Recaro race buckets and stock seats, I prefer the early Recaro buckets. You can get really nice repros from a couple of super sources and you can finish them any color/material combo that floats your boat. Door pockets? Although I like the look when they sit correctly and are in good shape, if they are not just so and droopy, then they detract from the interior. Cannot go wrong with stock - just don't store anything in them.

In all seriousness, if you have all the pieces to go stock without having to drop a bunch of money to acquire or restore them, then that is a very viable way to go. I have a stock T and love it. OTOH, if you dig the hot rod look, then you can easily alter your car towards that - just make sure whatever you do is reversible. That is what my 69E is and I love it although it is pretty much a dedicated hotrod - no going back easily. As most will tell you, it just depends on what you like. Or you could mix and match depending on your mood.... Have fun with it.

[t6dpilot]

Originally Posted by Rich Lambert

Rich, I love your car. That Heuer sticker works really well. Hhmmm, need to add one of those to my car.

[Rich Lambert]

Thanks Scott. Unlike Ron, I knew exactly what I wanted 10 years prior to buying that car. I just needed the right canvas to create it. I didn't worry about being able to undo something as that really limits what you can do.

[joetiii]

As has been said... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I havn't met an E yet that had the hydropneumatics still on it so everyone of em has been altered. I drove my 69 with a 20mm front bar for 2 years. Pushed pretty hard when slow but the derriere stayed firmly planted. Now, I have a 19mm on the back and the car feels better balanced. I just have to be more gentle with the gas on corner exit.