Yes. I'm not 'everyone'. But I concur.

Matt

Are you any further along with your assembly?

I ordered my new shims and they'll take about a week to get. Plus I'm on vacation this week. Taking the little guy to Disney World. So I'll update on progress next week. Thanks for checking in.

I'm back from vacation. My shims were at the door. Everyone went to bed early so I decided to do some work.

I installed the shims, put the 1st/2nd shift rod in the housing, and installed the gear stacks. I have a couple of questions before I get too far.

1. 1st/2nd Detents.

When I inserted the 1st/2nd shift rod into the differential housing, my detent (pill) was completely hidden in the space above the 1st/2nd rod and below the 3rd/4th rod. (I hope this makes sense.) I think it's in the right position based on the picture in the Bentley manual...but can someone confirm.

2. How do I know if my gear stacks are fully seated into the housing? I think they are but it's hard to tell with the shims there.

I took these two photos for reference when I dissembled my gear box.
Apologies for the quality... (Camera phone shots)

This is the "Diff" side... Just to confirm the pill goes between the shift rods. (1/2, 3/4)
Install 1/2 rod first, then with the pill in the detent install 3/4...

Once the rods are in place with the pill between them install the two pills and springs from outside the case...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241315452.jpg

This is the "Front" side. A bit more complicated but I tried to make a record of the position of each component with this photo.
They are shown in order in this photo. Note the two roll pins that hold the spring, spacer and double pill in place. They are sticking up out of their holes in this photo.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241315398.jpg

Please remember... All of the detent springs work together as a system to ensures you can not select two gears at once when the transmission is fully assembled.
Apologies for being obvious but if you keep this in mind it will help you get everything back together as it should be.

Note: With all of the detents in place you can select two gears at once with the from cover off because your doing this by hand and not by the shift rod.

Photo below for reference only (stolen from another thread)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241316244.jpg

If you have bolted down the retaining plates until they meet the face of your new shims the gear stacks should be fully seated into the housing.

Please use new spring washers on the retaining plate nuts. (M8)
If you reuse the old ones, 99% of the time they'll be fine but the workshop manual says to use new ones every time.

Just for information... WEVO recommends drilling and safety wiring these nuts in place.
I think this is over kill but I would at least use new springs washers.

Good luck with the build...

Pete,
Just ordered your book, thanks for helping us mere mortals.

A step back...

So I dropped a nut into the damn differential housing and had to open up the side cover and remove everything to get it out.

Remember that problem with the ring gear not spinning when I put the side cover on? Well it's back.

Before we start going into troubleshooting again...let me ask two questions.

When you turn the flanges...is the ring gear supposed to spin? I can turn the ring gear by hand, but when I turn the flanges the ring gear doesn't spin. This is with the cover on.

I also tried taking the cover off and putting pressure by hand on the carrier bearing and when I do that I get resistance. Is this right?

Set-up like this the ring gear wont spin when you turn the flanges from outside the gearbox...
The normal pre load of the diff carrier bearings is enough to stop the ring gear turning...
Instead the the planetary gears in the differential itself are are turning as these have no pre load like the differential carrier.

With the side cover off the differential may or may not be straight in the housing.
This could be causing the resistance your referring to.

The way to confirm everything is at it should be is to install the differential into the housing with the side cover on... (no O ring)
Then turn the differential as a whole using the procedure outlined by Peter Zimmerman earlier in your thread (this one) about checking pre load.
You need to make or source a washer to lock the flange to the differential so that the planetary gears wont turn when you turn the flange.

If you're having trouble finding a suitable washer you could make a circular ring from a piece of
welding rod that will do the dame thing. (2mm preferably but the more common 3.2mm will work as well)

Just bend it around the flange shaft so it's the right size and trim off the ends.
Make sure it's flat but brass welding rod is soft so it will flatten when you tighten up the flange bolt.

Hate to be obvious but make sure nothing drops inside the gearbox while doing this. Absolute cleanliness is essential at final assembly time.

I have included a picture posted by Grady Clay in my thread about measuring the differential back lash on a 915.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/471002-915-p259-tool-measurement-request-pics-2.html

Take some time to study this picture and try to understand each component and it's function as it may help you understand what's happening in your gearbox and how to lock the flange to the differential carrier.

P-357 is the washer which locks the flange to the differential carrier.
You won't need the M10x110mm bolt as you can use your OEM flange fixing elastic bolt.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241388961.jpg

Never mind. I jumped the gun. All is well again.

Differential is back in and side cover torqued.
Flanges are installed and torqued.
Gear stacks are in with new shims and torqued to the case with new lock washers.

I'll take some pictures before I move on.

We had touched on sealing the case. So what should I use?

1. Gasket only (yeah right)!
2. Curil T. with gasket
3. Locktite 574 with gasket
4. Locktite 574 without gasket
5. Other?

2. Curil T. with gasket.... Peter Z
3. Locktite 574 with gasket.... Porsche monkey

I'm planning on using Curil T with gaskets. But then again I may go with the Locktite 574. :confused:

What did the factory use from new?

That may be the safest option.

My mind might be a little fuzzy regarding this, but I think that the 915s were assembled with gaskets only - no sealant. This will not be successful during subsequent repairs. As stated above, I final clean all sealing surfaces with either MEK or lacquer thinner, and Q-Tips, followed by a thin, even coat of Curil T. There are probably a million ways to spread the Curil, I cut the tip off of a Q-Tip, and use the shaft, held perpendicular to the gasket, to "pull" the sealant across the gasket using very light pressure. The Q-Tip's white shaft will hold any excess sealant, so, for me, it's a very quick and easy method with zero risk of contamination.

If that works for you I'll just follow your lead.

Will one tube be enough?

More than enough - you'll only use a small amount of what's in the tube.

3rd/4th gear selector rod orientation -

Can someone show me how the detents are supposed to go for the 3rd/4th gear selector rod.

The Bentley manual is unclear.

Ok...maybe someone can just explain which way the rod is supposed to be oriented. I'm having trouble getting it into the case and I'm not sure which way I'm supposed to turn it.

Please see my earlier post for further details about the detent pill locations...

I would install the 3/4 shift rod before installing the 1/2. (3/4 just before 1/2 if you don't want to remove th shift forks)
You won't be able to get 1/2 in without the detent pill sitting in the 3/4 detent groove. (This is how the detent system stops two gears being engaged at once)

You need to get the 3/4 rod in place so that the detent pill sits in the detent groove of the rod then you should be able to slide 1/2 rod into place.

Once both 1/2 and 3/4 rods are in place and the detent grooves of 1/2 and 3/4 rods are in the same location in the case
with the detent pill is between them... Then install the two external detent pills, springs and bolts to hold the two shift rods in place.
Then re secure/glue the cap at the top that seals the hole going do to the detent pill between 1/2 and 2/3 shift rods.

I know this is a long winded explanation but I can post a picture of the two rods and pill showing their orientation to help.

Please let me know if you want this picture.

Peter,

I'm pretty sure I have the pill locations straight. I'm looking for the orientation of the 3/4 shift rod. Which way are the recesses in the rod supposed to go.

The picture in the Bentley manual shows the smooth side of the rod only. So it's hard to tell exactly where those recesses go.

Matt: pm me with a fax number and I'll send you a couple of pages from the factory manual...

Sent you a PM.

I'm guessing from this response you removed the shift forks from the rods.

The adjustment of the shift forks is pretty straight forward if not a bit tedious but take your time to get this just right.
As a suggestion you need to try and understand how the rods and forks for each gear pair are moved around inside the gearbox by the shift rod and the articulated arm.

Maybe the gear box gurus should chime in with some tips to help you because the last thing you want is to have to crack open a sealed transition to re adjust them.

These seem like a good idea to help you hold everything in place so you can adjust the shift forks and at $19.95 not a bad deal.

But how often will you use it? Maybe you could borrow one instead or if you choose to buy one, use it as a book end for your Porsche technical manuals...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241649306.jpg

Yes. I removed the forks and will be re-adjusting them. I have the jig.

I figured it out. There are grooves on the rods for the fork pinch bolts. Basically those align the rod in the case to their proper orientation once the fork is installed on them. So I got that back together and put the jig on and started installing the 5th/reverse gear stuff so I can align the forks.

Question...I'm having trouble keeping the transmission still while torquing the output shaft nut to 181 ft-lbs. I had mounted my old clutch disc on the wall with some plywood and used that as my lock/holder. It worked well for the input shaft nut (but that was only 118 ft-lbs. )

I was thinking of just using my impact wrench...but I'm afraid of over torquing it. Any ideas?

I'm no were near this stage myself but I'm planning to mount my trans in an engine stand to do the final assembly.

I figured I could stand on the legs of the engine stand so that I can get that final 188 ft-lbs without too many problems.
I may even bolt a thick plank of wood between/on top of the legs to get a better foot hold.

Great to hear you're making progress and the shift rod issue is resolved.

This adjustment is really difficult to convey because, although the book explains it, one has to learn how to do it. I do it this way, which is no guarantee that it will work for you - and I work with the trans on a heavy-duty stand.
1. Torque M/S & P/S fasteners with jig in place.
2. Place 1/2 & 3/4 sliders in neutral position.
3. Center slider for 3/4 mid-way between the two gears and snug the shift fork bolt (no need to torque it yet).
4. With the trans top facing up, look under the gear stack and find a vertical reference that can be seen while looking at the 1/2 rod/small fork (I use a casting line on the diff housing as my vertical reference).
5. Rotate the rod/fork counter clockwise until it stops, then move it clockwise until the flat surface of the fork is vertical - don't go past vertical. You'll probably have to do this a few times before you know that you have it right.
6. Taking care to not let the 1/2 rod turn, center the slider between 1 & 2, then snug the shift fork bolt. This is a little tricky, and seems like you need three hands - just work with it until you get all your fingers where they need to be.
7. NOTE: "SNUG" means tight enough so your adjustment can not change.
8. Verify that while centering the 1/2 slider the 1/2 fork rod position did not change.
9. Turn the trans upside down, and check the alignment of the 1/2 & 3/4 shift rod forks (the small, black ones). They should be lined up so the finger of the shift rod will be able to move smoothly from one to the other. Adjust if necessary by loosening the bolt for the small fork on the 3/4 rod.
10. OK, now you should have the brass 1/2 & 3/4 shift forks centered between their respective gears, and the smaller rod forks aligned with each other, as well as the small 1/2 rod/fork not turned past vertical.
11. Now the distance between the small forks must be set. This is perhaps the most difficult adjustment, because the manual is a bit imperfect. Push the two forks together, and check how close the flat portions of each fork (NOT the tips!) get to each other. Now, move them as far apart as possible and see how far apart they are.
12. At the closest point the forks should be about 1mm apart (they must not touch), and at the widest point the flat surfaces should be no more than 3mm apart. This is when experience helps, but if you can achieve about 2mm of clearance at the mid-point of your clearance motion you should be good to go.
13. Re-check your small forks to make sure they are still lined up and tighten the bolt for the small fork.
14. Turn the trans upside up, and use a large, flat-bladed screwdriver to test shift 1st-4th. After you have successfully shifted into each of the four gears, one at a time, re-check that both of your sliders are still centered between their respective gears, adjust if necessary, check the 1/2 rod/fork for vertical, then torque all three bolts to 18lb/ft.
15. Remove 5th gear and your jig, install your center housing with shift rod, and secure the housing with one nut. Install your end cover and secure with one nut.
16. Turn the trans upside down, and with the finger of the shift rod in position (centered in the two small forks) you should be able to rotate the finger (by turning the end of the shift rod) so that it moves smoothly between the 1/2 & 3/4 small forks.
17. If you have interference you will have to adjust the vertical position of the 1/2 rod/fork. If movement is smooth without tip contact you're good to go. Remove the housings/shift rod, and prepare the parts for final assembly.

I have to stress that standing over your shoulder watching you is really the only way to be sure that there is no communication problem. If you have trouble please post!

DO NOT USE AN IMPACT - THAT'S AN ORDER :D!

Try this, go to Home Depot/Lowe's or the like, and buy a flat, steel bar, at least 1" x 1/4" x 4'. Set up your clutch disc on your M/S splines, and buy bolts and spacer material (quality stuff) so that you can bolt your flat bar to the installed clutch disc, AND to the diff housing using a bolt through one of the engine mount stud holes. Once everything is tight, put the trans in 4th gear, and "roll" the trans over until the bar is resting firmly against your bench top. You still might need a helper to hold the trans while you torque the P/S nut.

The Bentley manual seemed pretty straight foward with the fork adjustment. It didn't seem that complicated. I'll go through it and compare it to Pete's instructions above.

Yeah...I think I'm going to have to lock it in a gear and put it on the floor and maybe have someone hold it done while I torque it. I had thought of the flat bar bolted to the clutch disc as well, so I already bought the flat steel. I'll give it a try.

Pete's suggestion was on...I needed to lock the transmission in 4th gear. My home made I/S lock wasn't enough to resist the 181 ft-lbs of twisting force. With both locked I was able to torque it without much a problem. Would have been easier with a second set of hands, but I overcame.

I did the adjustment procedure and it seemed to go pretty easily. I haven't pulled off the jig yet because I want to take some photos for you guys to look at first...but I couldn't find where my wife put the camera last night.

I put the shift rod into the housing (obviously without the intermediate case on) just as a quick test. It seemed to move through the two forks without any interference. I'll double verify once I remove the jig using Pete's method.

Now I'm just waiting for my Curil T (ordered from Pelican with a few other goodies). I'm so close I can taste it.

Remember, placing the shift rod the way that you did does nothing - you need the intermediate housing and nose cover on to make sure that the rod is in the actual position that it will be in when the trans is functional. A little movement here, a little there, and you end up with a false test result. This is similar to trying to turn your diff without the side cover seated - it won't tell you anything but it can certainly scare you!

Glad to hear that you're making progress! Make sure that your 1/2 slider has its asymmetrical teeth facing 1st gear (that's the side of the slider that has a groove machined into the OD)!

Is there a trick to getting the intermediate cover on with the selector rod in the case?

The little stub out thing that sticks off the rod prevents the cover from going on.

Pic please.

Are you talking about the detent?

Put the shift rod inside the cover, and hold it in its approximate installed position while you slide the housing into place. This is good practice for you for when the gasket and sealant will be in place!

Put a little smear of lithium white grease on the tip of the rod where it will fit into the hole in the diff housing!

Got it.

If you put the rod in the case and rotate it all the way counter-clockwise as far as it will go, the piece that comes off the selector rod which actuates the 5/R rod will clear the hole casting in the case that holds the 5/R rod. (If that makes any sense...so hard to describe this stuff when you don't have the correct terminology.)

Intermediate and end covers are on and the selector piece moves through the 1/2 and 3/4 lever forks clearly and past them for the 5/R too.

Now I'm just waiting for my sealant so i can get this thing back together.

Outstanding!

Matt: Tech tip...
When you apply your Curil T, use a clean sheet of paper from an 8.5x11" tablet, and lay the paper on a flat, clean surface. Put your gasket for the diff housing to intermediate housing on the paper, diff housing side up. Squeeze out a thin bead of sealant onto the gasket and spread as already discussed. Place the gasket on the diff housing and the Curil will stick it in place. Make sure it's lined up with the stud holes in the lower left corner.

Now apply a thin bead of sealant to the intermediate housing sealing surface, spread it evenly, put the shift rod in the housing, and hold it so you can see that the detent is "down." Slide the housing into position being careful to not tear the gasket where the two studs pass through it into the diff housing.

Repeat procedure for the nose cover.

Perfect timing on this. I should be getting my order on Thursday.

Here's a few crappy phone pics just for fun:

Overall -
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242146715.jpg

1st/2nd Gear Slider Position
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242146754.jpg

3rd/4th Gear Slider Position
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242146789.jpg

Selector fork positioning
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242146871.jpg

Extra Seals???
 

My gasket set came with all these seals. I can't find a place for these. Where do these go?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242146938.jpg

Matt: Your picture #4, post #116, scares the heck out of me! It does not look like you have the small fork for 3/4 even close to where it has to be. I did a mock-up for you (see pics below) that might help, the last couple of photos show a piece of paper where your approx. 2mm of clearance should be:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152618.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152647.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152682.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152713.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152739.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152773.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242152813.jpg

Oh wow! I think I measured the 2mm to the wrong spot.

Below is what I did.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242155813.jpg

Funny though the selector rod still seemed to move through without intereference. It reset it per your photos and take another picture for review.

Don't worry about them, they're for different year transmissions - speedo drive seal, seal washers for detent plugs, etc.)...