Thanks Flieger, a compliment since you have seen many tube frame and track cars...

I'm amazed at the amount of people actually looking at this thread but not saying a word!?! LOL I dont tend to write very much just let the pictures do the talking. If any of you have comments (good or bad) or suggestions, dont hesitate.

Well my work day got cut short by an empty propane heater tank in the shop so its a good time for an update! As all projects go, 25% more time and 25% more money then expected, the motor is not yet started but very, very close.

The 915 finally came back from PorscheHauss with the CMS side cover, all new seal and fasteners. I have good hopes this will work out fine to start, next we'll propably go for a 6s G50. In an effort to find tenths of a second here and there, I decided not to bend the 964 engine carrier and modify the tranny mount instead. This was an experiment that worked out pretty good, I was able to move the engine/trans. assembly 1.4'' forward. Doesnt seem like much but should be noticable on the scales! I strive for good balance and this is the kind of thing that makes a quick car of any make, details.


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I boxed up the mount for strenght and will send it out for sandblast and powdercoating next month. I also took the time to fit the oil cooler, gave it a little angle forward following the soon to be duct slope. I will receive the steel fuel cell can and missing fittings on Monday, once its all fit I can get to work on the ducting. This should provide ample cooling!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292174493.jpg

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I got myself a xmas present!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292174947.jpg

Fabcar shifter, its been modified at some point so like everything else in my life, it requiers some work... LOL But it look great!

So not a moment to soon, the motor is in and supported as it should! Good day


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292175228.jpg


Thanks for watching everyone!

Wow! I can't believe I missed this thread all year. I just went through the whole thing and am seriously impressed. Good job!

What will your static driveshaft angle be? We have seen a couple CV joint/axle failures. The axle failure was a 935 replica (Reaper930) and the CV joint failure was on an RSR replica (Jack Olsen's car). They both had drivetrains moved forward and had lots of power.

Moving the engine forward is good for handling, but make sure you use CV joints that are strong enough and with enough range of motion not to bind.

I was also concerned about the axels until I test fitted, the amount of change is marginal. I have however inquired with the local racing cv axel shop and they could easily supply me with a bulletproof set if the need presented itself...

Do you know how much Reaper and Jack advanced the drivetrain?

Thanks 450knotoffice

I think Jack did two inches or less forward of the stock 72 location. I cannot remember if Reaper moved it forward, but his car was lower. With him, power was also an issue, though it seemed the failure was a combination of fatigue and bending load being applied to the torsion bar of the axle shaft, possibly caused by suspension binding due to bottoming out. Cup cars break axles quite frequently, apparently, due to the high power and stiff suspension. If they go over bumps without lifting, the wheels loose traction and the axles load/unload too quickly.

The difference should be about 1.8deg on each end of the axel, not enought to change much. Power on the other hand will put more torque stress on the axel (not my problem right now)lol, if I expect any problems with the cv's, it will be caused by the diff...

drop a note to Tyson, I am sure he can walk you thru what they did on BB2

Wow!

If you can drive even half as well as you build, no one is going to be able to catch you!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292207303.gif

;) Sorry, duplicate post.

Found the threads, in case it helps

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/576884-930-snapped-axle-carnage-rwhp-problems.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/571196-cv-joint-cage-disintegrates-track.html

Wow wax105, this is an awesome build. very impressive fab skills. did you seam weld the chassis at all? what target weight do you anticipate?

congrats on the new wife and new baby. my time in the garage decreases as my 5 year old gets older, but luckily I enjoy time with her even more than working on my project cars. :)

Wow! Whoa! Super nice job!

Who's is this and where can I find more info on it?

Flieger - mjshira
Thanks, thats gold!

It's the thing I do best!! :D:D:D

jmitro
No the tub is not welded, at this point its only along for the ride... Weight should be hopefully around 2000lbs, my ultimate dream target is 4-5lbs/hp. I'll build the most powerfull race turbo motor I can afford and remove the amount of tub needed to reach my goal... lol

"This we dont need, cut! This we dont need, cut! This we dont need, cut!"

Mike
Sorry I dont have any info, was found during a search for 993 suspension conversions on rennlist I think. Didnt find any real build stats but its pretty straight forward, the important part is a proper jig to align everything up. Me like!!

more on the car with the 993 rear suspension

http://instant-g.com/Cars/GT3R/Cage/index.html

Erik, good show man... More dreaming now! Thanks

You're way up there in North Norway, I lived in Stavanger for a while but never made it up past Bergen, nice country!

Carl,

Thanks to you for continuing to post updates. Everybody learns alot by watching what you're doing!

Care to share some basic details of how you plan to set up the pedals? I've thought about switching to a dual master cylinder for making brake bias adjustments, and I like the idea of Tilton pedal system since it puts the weight low in the tub. Plus I don't want to spend the money for the Fabcar MC setup..... :D

Thanks KTL!
"Hope the family is doing good and that all went well with the new Baby! Actually I think I hear your wife calling you for a diaper change... ;) "

Well for pedals, as you know I went with the Tilton floor mount setup. They are the best bang for the buck and really nice quality. I made a raised aluminium floor pan for the cockpit that gave me a very nice surface to mount. I have two of the mounting bolts going thru the plate and floor and two others just thru the plate. It's plenty strong but I think I'll drill out the two optional mounting holes and get 6 total.

I wanted the complete assembly, masters and all, to fit inside the car without going thru the firewall, you'll need the compact M/Cs. If setting up a purpose track car, driver positionning for me is paramount. I wanted to have the pedals centered with the steering column, I had to massage the tub with an 8lbs hammer to make a little room for the clutch m/c... That erea is double skinned and no visible signs of the mod in the wheel well!

For my specific application the system called for .700'' front and rear masters. With this setup the front and rear lines are independent of each other, as opposed to a proportionning valve that changes the amount of flow forward and rearwards. I much prefer this! The pedals come with the balance bar that allows for front and rear m/c travel adjustments. This will change proportioning between the both and will be adjusted via the bias nob you see on the bottom of my switch panel. As for the clutch m/c, the general rule is it should be the same size as the slave cylinder you will use. I think I'll go with the CNC 7/8 slave, adaptation to the 915 is not bolt on but should be relatively easy. Setting the clutch release and adjusting the travel is the most important. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I've tried it out...

THanks for sharing the details Carl. I suspected you modified the floor to get the Tilton assembly up and out of the divot on the floor for the factory pedals. I agree the balance bar setup is the way to go to ensure that a proportioning valve doesn't become a link that joins the circuits

I'll be interested to see your setup for the clutch actuation. I saw a similar setup on a 930 trans that I thought was a cool trick. Incidentally someone on the forums (BoxsterGT) recently asked about a hydraulic conversion on the 915, so you could help point us in the right direction.

If I may, how is the gas pedal configured / connected?

Are the pedals closer to the driver than stock?

Thx.

Impressive build, kind of my dream!
I'm planning to put G50 box to my 73 project someday. I have tried to find reasonable priced G50 pedal setup, but no luck so far. As I would like to get proper balance adjustment too, Tilton pedal setup could be best option. Could you share some details: Are you using 600 series pedals? Looks like 680 model to me. What about master cylinders, size and are those 75 or 76 series? Need to be very short due location. Tilton parts are almost double price here in Europe :eek: so need to order from US.

911st
That picture is from the first day I got the pedals, they are not placed or bolted. I'll get you a fresh pic, yes the pedals are closer and more to the left from the originals. As for the accelerator, it's not done yet but a simple custom lenght cable or retrofit something adequate. Tilton sells an adjustable throttle linkage system that basicaly lets you tune the rate at which the throttle will be opened. Havent decided if I'll use it but I think it could be nice...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1292340260.jpg

A small tab on the tunnel to stop the cable housing and the cable attached to the throttle cam. Won't be done right away but I'll definently show you guys my solution once I've dealt with it.

Samujr
I'm using the 680 series pedals, they are about 500$ depending on where you get them, no m/c, bias nob or throttle cam. As for masters, the 75 and 76 series are essentialy the same apart for the fill cap, I have 75s.

In my case, I dont have to worry about street use or looking original being a dedicated track car. If someone simply wanted dual brake m/c, I think there are easier and cheaper option out there. Doing a single brake pedal w/dual m/c adapted to the factory pedal box might prove a better option for some...

Thank you for the details. Good to know that 75 and 76 are basically identical. I do not need billet/aluminium reservoirs so 75 should be fine. And yes, 680 series 3 pedal setup is around £500 from UK what is like $800. Same type of pricing on master cylinders. Those dual setups like Fabcar still uses Tilton master cylinders and it aint cheap either, but fine if you want to use std pedals.
Now, how did you calculate suitable master cylinders sizes?

Samu

Found good thread regarding dual mc setups. Bill Verburg, as usual, shares his huge brake knowledge:
Dual-m-cs-size-recommendations

Samujr
Bill V is certainly an authority on brakes! I got in contact with Tilton engineering department, they asked me some questions, seemed to plug the numbers in a calculation tool and voila... He did say that they dont do this anymore for customers. Dont want to be liable for making that choice, people didnt like the proposed m/c and would call back expecting a trade or refund. The calculation takes to many factors to get exactly right but you can get close enought that its one size up or down...

At about 100$/per and a selection of about 10 sizes, worst case scenario, you spent 1000$ getting it right!! :p

No seriously, the engineers comment was:
" Most all 911s I have sized requierd 7/10 m/cs for about 100lbs foot pressure for lookup..."

In the end it comes back to driver preference!

The Monster is alive!! You are looking at one happy camper...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294070498.jpg

While the friends and family were celebrating in the house on January 1st, I was celebrating in the garage! ;)

I finally got all the wiring and connectors figured and she fired right up! Now that I know what I need and dont need, I will clean up this mess of electrical and oil lines and sort it all out.

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A word of advice to those that will be using the PatrickMotorsport flywheel, I had to modify the crank sensor bracket to get .8mm gap. I chose to shave the sensor mounting face of the bracket and not enlarge the adjustement hole and change the attack angle. Mine needed about 1.3mm closer, check it well before you attempt a start, its nice when it fires right up on the first try...

So my next step will be brake and clutch lines, accelerator cable and then it all comes apart again for fab engine bay tins, cutting of bumper supports, bulkhead trims and grommets and finaly door bars!

Still alot of work ahead but its definitely a car now... :D:D:D

Congrats on the progress Carl. Looking good as usual. Man, I didn't realize how big your oil tank was from previous pictures. That sucker is BIG. How did you mount the suction/supply line to the engine? Is it the lower of the two silver-sleeved lines?

One thing I noticed is where you placed the G2X brain. I was thinking of putting mine there too. You think you'll have a hassle getting to the card port to download your data? Also was thinking of being able to see the LEDs in case of diagnosis. Not a big deal. Just wondering your thoughts.

I see you have a similar fuel cell as my Sport 15 gallon. These are nice cells for the price, no? Curious how you're planning to mount it. Mine is suspended from the floor with two lengths of square tubing across the trunk and then bolted down with two cross pieces. Had to add some "U" sections underneath after I discovered lack of support under the old cell allowed it to signficantly droop and distort the steel containter.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294161657.jpg

I'd like to build onto my cage like you have done, so i'm interested to see how you mount the cell. I think it'd be fairly easy to build the reverse of my installation, with the cell on the floor. I don't like my install, given that the cell is "floating" above the floor and obviously puts weight higher than it needs to be.

Great read to start a new year.........

Just my .02 cents and I'm not trying to hijack. If you plan on changing your fuel cell mount, I would consider moving those two fuel pumps toward the center of the car instead of them in the front. Not really a good spot for a possible front end collision.

Great build!

Great build, the RSRs have always been one on my faves:)

You do some superb fab work!

Brett

Chad,

I agree the pumps are in less than ideal location. That's how it came built, and I felt the same way as you when I first saw it. I have to replace some fuel lines due to age, so i'm working on re-doing the layout. Probably end up re-doing it a second time when it comes time to install forward mounted oil tank......

Kevin,

You're right the oil tank is huge, 5 gallons, I'll keep it about 3/4 full. The deal I got was to good to pass up, I would have got a 4 gallon if I was buying new... It will do just fine for the application!

Yes the lower oil line is the supply, I got a metric to -16 adapter fitting and used a 90deg hose end. I'll get you some pics if you like...

Good point about the G2X, I used industrial strenght velcro to attach it to the tunnel. This will allow me to access the memory card and status lights, I think its the best place for it. Those velcro strips are really very strong, its not moving unless I want it to.

As for the cell, I have a 12g, sportsmans are definitely the best bang for your buck. Drop in models are ridiculously expensive and for a track application they are of no value I think! Go back to post #66, you'll see the craddle at the bottom, its resting on the cage in the front and I welded some tab at the back. The craddle itself is welded in place, I still need to decide on the way I'll attach the alu. straps that will hold it in place.

I agree with Chad about the placement of your pumps, not ideal but I dont think its major. As you said, take care of it when you get in there.

Brett,

I understand my friend, this is what I dream about at night!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294193487.jpg

Thanks for nice words guys!

Only reason I asked about the tank supply line is because i've heard that its a good idea to run that line as straight as possible. I suspect it has something to do with ensuring best possible flow back to engine and avoid making the pump work harder to scavenge oil from the tank? Usually that line can be nearly level since the tank outlet fitting and the engine inlet fitting are at approximately the same height. However connecting those two points in a level manner is easier said than done, considering other stuff like trailing arms can get in the way!

I had my Traqmate mounted on the center tunnel where the handbrake used to be. Nice location but easy to damage if you put your hand on the tunnel area to get in/out of the seat. I agree the super duty velcro is tough stuff. Use too much of it and its like you glued the thing in place! A few semi-narrow strips is all you need to mount something light like the G2X brain or the ECU.

Looking forward to seeing your hotrod go. Some in-car video shares will be a must to hear that thing scream! :D

Good point about the oil line Kevin! The trailing arm is kind of in the way but I might be able to straighten it out some more... I figured the smuggler box oil tank installs would put more stress on the pump. The point you make is very logical, I'll look in to it!

Carl,
This is really a beautiful project. Great job (again)!

A buddy of mine has the front trunk mounted tank, but uses -20 or -24 for the feed line. It is laid out level through the car, back through the firewall and to the inlet. He posts as Ted on this board and suspect his setup is detailed in what is likely the longest car build thread on Pelican (maybe short of Matteo's).

It might be worth looking into the large hose? Or at least checking with a shop like Patrick Motorsports on how they do these. Hate to find out the hard way that there wasn't sufficient oil flow.

That pedal assembly and throttle, especially is really impressive.

Thanks for all of the photos!
Doug

Here's SmartRacing's oil tank install recommendations. They're pretty good at sweating the details to make sure things are done right. Alot of what seems like overkill to us, has good reason when you hear the specifics behind why they decided to build it that way.

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/pdfdocs/154100_oiltank_front.pdf

That being said, Walt Fricke has had a front tank in his racer for like 20 yrs. and it was using a -12 supply line!

Kevin and Doug

I thank you both for your input, not the type of comments I take litely!

The second after I read Kevin comment (made sense to me), I contacted Andre at PorscheHaus for his opinion and sent him the pics of the line setups. He was not as worried about the height of the line as he was about the size. He says they had blown a few motors on high G tracks in the past because the supply line was to small. Basicaly -16 supply is ok but there is a risk factor, one I'm not ready to take, so -20 supply it will be... Now while redoing that line, I will route it straighter then it is now but dont have to obsess with it.

He did also mention that he likes to route the case overflow line as high up as possible (over the main hoop) and then back down. I wasnt going to run it that high!

This kind of stuff is gold boys, please feel free to comment anytime!

Thanks
Carl

I do however LOVE the fuel level gauge :) Way better than my hood prop/fuel guage.

Carl,

I've gotten conflicting opinions on the engine case vent line. Some like it high and others have said they don't. The ones that don't mentioned that they think putting it up high presents the opportunity to aerate the oil and it doesn't get to the tank as effectively? I don't know. I'd like to see for myself how the case vent line behaves by using a temporary clear hose- the braid reinforced stuff like you see in food industry. Then you could see how its traveling thru the hose and how much of it.

One thing i'm certain of is the case vent line MUST be vented to the tank and not to a catch can. Apparently the case vent can spit a pretty good volume of oil and a catch can would likely overflow and also deplete your oil supply.

Chad,

I can't take credit for the wood paint stirring stick and kite string fuel level gauge! I'm sure I would have overthought it and made something more elegant, wasting a bunch of time. But as I get older I am appreciating quick & simple solutions and I really like my previous owner's home grown fuel gauge.

What's also funny is the cell had a true ATL fuel gauge and sending unit (seen in the picture on the right side of the fill plate) that didn't work! :D I removed the gauge and incidentally had to cut off the probe of the sender because it wouldn't fit in the replacement bladder I had to buy- old one long expired. Anybody need a ATL fuel level gauge?