H-4's

[flatsixjunky]

Hello everyone,

I have another dumb question.

What is the difference between the H-4's?

There are Euro H-4 (0-301-800-103-M14) and the other DOT approved H-4's (70476-M44)?

The glass on the reflector housings on my '89 Carrera have the DOT letters, does that makes them illegal in Europe and the Euro H-4 illegal here?

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

FSJ

[jeffrey2]

I believe the difference is the US H4s are bulb units that fit into the Sugar Scoops. Euro H4s look like H1s and H5s...in the concept that they have a glass lens that is removable with a replaceable bulb. SIMILAR to the ones you currently should have on your 89

[flatsixjunky]

So, the fact that they have different glass and housing makes them a better headlight?, even though both have the same light bulb?

[Zeke]

You can install brighter lamps in Euro H4's, H1's and your H5's. Sealed beams don't allow for this. Be sure to install a relay kit if you go brighter. In fact, that's a good idea for any 911.

[flatsixjunky]

Thank you milt,

your H5's

from milt

So that's what I have on my '89, H-5's?

Be sure to install a relay kit if you go brighter

from milt

Exactly higher than what? 55/60 watts?

Thanks

[tcar]

Flat6junkie,

Your headlights are H5's if they are DOT approved. They were original on most (all?) Carreras. The beam pattern is considered inferior to H4's (and H1's which have 2 bulbs in them, 1 for low and one for high). Due partly to the US mandated beam patterns.

H4's were never DOT approved.

There are also H4's that fit into sugar scoops. They are NOT DOT approved either. They have removable bulbs also and can have higher wattage also. They also have a much better beam pattern. People(me included sometimes) often call these 'US H4's'. From the exterior, they look like the sealed beam lights that were originally in sugar scoops.

Sealed beam lights had 55/65 W, or so, ratings, and so did your H5's. With the replaceable bulbs, you can go up to, say, 65/100 W or so. You need a relay to do this.

[Zeke]

tcar, I may have been mistaken about the lamps in the "sealed" beams. But something makes me think they weren't replaceable. Were they cemented in? I have some, I just am too lazy to dig them out.

[donporfi]

The H4 that fit in sugar scoops:
There were sealed H4 which did not have replaceable bulbs, just like a tungsten sealed beam.
And there were H4 with replaceable bulbs, and these had also different beam patterns, US beam pattern and European beam pattern. Always the US DOT beam pattern has been inferior than the European beam pattern.

[JerryL]

Originally Posted by flatsixjunky

Thank you milt,

from milt

So that's what I have on my '89, H-5's?

from milt

Exactly higher than what? 55/60 watts?

Thanks

I run 55 / 100 very nice when you want and can use them.
and yes add a relay or 2, I run a relay for low beam and one for high's

Regards

[flatsixjunky]

Thanks Tcar, don and Jerry.

Does this means that I don't need a relay for 55/60 W, right?

FSJ

[Zeke]

Not necessarily. All the power goes thru the stalk. As the stalk gets older, it tends to not handle the power as well. You can run low relay power thru the stalk contacts and prolong the life of the stalk.

[RSTarga]

I don't believe that you can use high wattage bulbs safely in the H5. Parts of the assembly are plastic.

[Zeke]

Yes, the lens itself. But, how long do you keep the 100W on? If you do that kind of country driving at night, I'd change out the headlights and get some additional driving lights.

[flatsixjunky]

Thanks milt and RS

Here they are, the reasons behind my questions. H-4's and Euro taillights.





So my question was, with the new h-4's I will be using 55/60 lightbulbs, do I also need a relay or can I go ahead and install them?


thanks,

[real550A]

They will work without the relays.
When the stalk switch fries, which it will, you'll wish you had installed the relays.
I would install the relay kit.

[Roc Doc]

My car originally had H1's and they fully brought the suck. So I "upgraded" to sealed beams from Cibe, and they're not really much better because of the reflector desing, (Bobi's if anybody remembers that product from the 80's). Anyway, I just ordered e-code Hella 7" H4's with 80/100 bulbs and the relay kit from JWest. All in I'm at about $130 instead of the $4-500 for "real" H4's.

I like the way the factory H4 and H5 headlights look, but it came down to a matter of dollars. Sorry Obama, I'm gonna keep a little extra in my pocket.

[RoninLB]

there are Bosch style H-4 and Cibie & Hella H-4

there is DOT and E-code of each. DOT has the glass tits on the lens

all have replacement bulbs

130/100w Narva bulbs is doable on the street with proper wiring, bulb socket prep and aiming. If using said bulb don't lean on stalk flash or you might melt the bulb inner ground and bulb is then kaput

routine stone chips on the lens degrades optics

the 1/4" stick-on lens protectors degrades bulb strength about 10%

don't over drive your lights at night on a non-lit road


ps: it's assumed everybody uses relays for every bulb

[emcon5]

Euro vs DOT has to do with the aiming tits, and how and where the light goes.

From a place that sells a lot of Hella lights, which I will not link from respect for Wayne:

There are four basic differences between a Vision Plus (DOT Approved) and a Hella Euro Conversion.

First is in the lighting pattern. For us in the US the regulations date from the 50's. The US DOT mandates a dispersed pattern that puts a percentage of the light output UP and to both sides of the road so that overhead or roadside signs, which may not have other lighting or reflective characteristics, are lit for you.

The European standard allows all the light to go on the road - they have a law that any overhead or roadside sign has to have it's own, independent lighting or must be highly reflective. So not only is there more light on the road with your low-beams, the high-beams are more precise as well. There is also a triangle of light on the right side to light up roadside signs. Lamps sold in places where they drive on the left side of the road, like England and Japan, have that triangle on the left side.

The effect is that the Euro lights actually put more light on the road for you to drive with, and offend oncoming traffic MUCH LESS because of the sharp cutoff in the lighting pattern. And all of this with the same wattage lamps as in the US.

That's on low beam. Because of the low-beam requirements and the way that screws up the lens and reflector design, it's impossible to get a good high beam. Although the Vision Plus is substantially better than your typical off-the-shelf sealed beam, it's performance falls short of the Hella Euro Conversion.

The second difference is that DOT also required that the lamp have the three Aiming Lugs on the face of the lens. This requirement was dropped in the 2000 DOT Standard when visual aiming was approved. The Vision Plus lamps still have the Aiming Lugs, E-code lamps do not.

Third, the lamp must have DOT molded into the face to confirm that it meets DOT. E-code lamps have E1 molded into the lens.

Fourth, the lamp must not have more than 60 watts on high beam and 55 watts on low beam. The Vision Plus comes with a 60/55w H4/HB2 bulb in it in order to meet the DOT standard. The E-code lamps have no bulb because there are many variations in wattage and color available. It is not recommended to put a higher wattage bulb in a Vision Plus because the light pattern could dazzle oncoming traffic.

If you can upgrade to the Hella Euro conversions, then this is the least expensive, easiest and most beneficial upgrade you can make to your forward lighting.

I have the Hella E code lamps and they are excellent, even with the 60/55W bulb.

Tom

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by emcon5

From a place that sells a lot of Hella lights,

nice post

[RoninLB]

here's 2 real nice threads




911 Headlight 101


Headlight utopia?