Why dont "real" Porsche fans like the 996

[RaF944]

Many people dont like this evolved look but I do. I had a 996 cabrio parked at my work today. It was nice and clean and kept up.

Next time you see one just look at the curves and the body and you will see that it truly is a Porsche.....It has no whale tail spoiler(unless a turbo)....If you ask me it looks like an evolved early 911 (911S). sure it does not look anything like the 77-94 cars..and does not look like the 993 but it is a very beutiful car

Some people criticeze it for not having an Air Cooled engine..But it was tested with both Air and Water cooled engines before the release. Porsche realized that there were more positives about the water cooled than air cooled. Porsche just wanted the best for their Customers. They released it like that for a reason.

Another dislike is the Headlight. This is one thing that I think takes away from looking like a 911. Of course the lights match the car and look good. I dont know which I would like better because i Have never seen a prototype of it with round light.

One more thing is the Exhaust sound. Yes it is kinda weird not hearing the 911 release its true power. At low RPM's the 996 and THe Boxter are silent. At high RPM's they both scream. I am sure you can do something to the 996 to get rid of the silence The New corvettes are quite too...its weird not hearing a loud corvette

The last reason is the Rich snobby people that wont even wave.... This one is funny...even though its true...These same type of people drove the 911S the Carrera, SC,930,964,993,928,968,944,951 When they were BRAND NEW....You will always see these people.

Rafal

------------------
85.5 Porsche 944

[Clark Griswald]

Well, let's see.

The appearence is non-descript. Looks like a Toyota Supra. Looks like a boxster but not as unique.

Too heavy. What do these things weigh, 3200 lbs?

Too cushy. Power everything.

Too expensive. Compare to the price a used 911.

I like a lightweight, agile sports car. Even my Carrera has too many power gadgets.

------------------
Chuck Moreland - '86 Cab, '77 Targa, Family Truckster

[pwd72s]

The dash of the 996 sucks...the old 5 gauge layout much better and the older interiors more pleasing to the eye. Ditto on too fat, too luxurious, just too far away from the basic sports car premise. If I was after the luxury in a 996? I'd probably buy a Lexus GS400 instead, and build a hot rod early 911 with the rest! Oh, I'm not denying that the 996 is fast...not at all.
But even if my lotto numbers came in, a 996 would not be on my purchase list. After all, the lexus has a better stereo...isn't that what luxury is for? Ignore your surroundings & listening to a high quality stereo?

[sander]

I've heard it said that Porsche should have ended the 911 model line with the 993 and officially made the 996 the start of a new breed.



------------------
'71 911E with Webers
Golden Gate Region PCA

[Jack Olsen]

It's a great car. So was the 928. Neither really had the charisma of the 911, though.

------------------
Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net

[Mark 69 911]

I think its ugly. Flat sides. The water does not bother me. Shares too much with the lessor Porsche, a Boxster.

I much prefer a 993.....lovely round headlights.
When my lease is up on my M3 I'm going hunting for a fly yellow 993.

[Bill Douglas]

A marvelous car Raral, but too refined for me. I like a bit of noise, good style and a classic look. I'm the sort of guy that wears Levi's and real leather, not fake. And appricates a part of modern history. I think a lot of the guys are probaly like me

[Bill Wagner]

I don't care for the looks, but I could live with them. The performance is (obviously) great, but they look like they're IMPOSSIBLE to work on without a lift.

I don't like it when ANY car company implements a "dealership only" service policy. That happened to the Dodge Stealth RT/TT and Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR-4 (same cars) with their transmissions and some other components (unrepairable except by dealerships that swap them out). Other Japanese super-cars of the same era are selling for almost twice as much as the 3000GT/Stealth. I'd be willing to bet that the 996 holds it's value in the long term about as well as the 928 did!

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by RaF944:
Some people criticeze it for not having an Air Cooled engine..But it was tested with both Air and Water cooled engines before the release. Porsche realized that there were more positives about the water cooled than air cooled. Porsche just wanted the best for their Customers. They released it like that for a reason.

if the 996 had an air-cooled engine then Porsche as we know it would be a subsidiary of GM, Ford, or FIAT. the air-cooled engine, even the one in the 993, won't pass noise or emissions laws in many countries. don't like that? blame it on the Swiss, and blame it on California.

also, the reason the 911 had the air cooled engine for so long was because they wanted to refine the water cooled ones to a level that they were superior to the air cooled ones? don't believe it? ask Andial, Porsche Motorsports, PMNA, or ANY engine builder on this planet if they can extract more power from an air cooled or from an equivalent water cooled engine. ask a 962 owner if the water cooled or air cooled ones had more power. in every case, the 962Cs with the water cooled heads had the capability for another 100-250 horsepower over the air cooled ones. the knowledge of this is what tricked down to the latest generation of Porsches.

the engine in the 996 uses the variable valve technology that Porsche perfected in the last of the 968s. before it hit the 996, Porsche had been working with water cooled flat six racing engines for 2 decades. in fact the 996GT3 engine is pretty damn close to the GT1-98 engine.

don't worry, they know what they're doing. if you're a "real" porsche fan and you think that they've gone astray with the latest Porsches... then step into a time machine and ask a "real" Porsche fan what they thought about the first 911. hint: they didn't like it either. history is all there in the books. feel free to pop one open and find out more about Porsche.

obin

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Two words:

FORD CONTOUR

[cegerer]

Two more words:

Chevy Cavalier

------------------
1971 911T - 2.5L Big Bore

[bfranklin]

Acutally on the weight comment several posts above, the 996 is on the lighter side, with a base weight of 2900 lbs (C4 and cab obviously add some). Also many think it is too refined, i agree somewhat, but then again compare it to most other new cars made and it is still fairly raw (i.e. compare to M3 etc).

Brad

[Randy W]

I agree with the posts about the superior handling and power of the 996, but if Ferrari can import a car as beautiful as the 360 Modena, why can't Porsche give us something better looking than the 996? The headlights, tailights, front ducts and the styling of the front and rear overhangs leaves alot to be desired in my opinion - and the spy photos of the next generation 996 give me little hope. I think the Boxster actually looks better overall, and it's not nearly as pretty as the show car.

Randy W

[enk1]

Two further words -

NO SOUL!


Ed
'88 930S

[Saffs]

I can't help but feel the once apon a time 356 owners would of said some this about a 76 911S with CIS and elec. windows and AC. The point is: times change, market forces (i.e., making cars that will sell v. going bust), technology, aerodynamics all have developed a lot since the '70s. Thus we see technological laden cars that achieve they're performance from that. I prefer the look of "older" cars but it's all cool and we can only hope that modern car design gets a bit more distinct - guess it's been getting better recently.

------------------
'75 911S Targa
'81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3
http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Saffs

[epbrown]

I've heard the "356 owners probably said the same thing" argument before, but I'm betting they didn't. They may have said "The sky is falling" about the direction Porsche was taken, but they knew that the 911 series was a new Porsche - with us, Porsche is milking the brand loyalty of the 911 to sell completely different cars. They should have switched model names after '89 at the earliest, definitely after the 993.

Emanuel

------------------
Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus

1966 Rolls-Royc Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911SC Targa

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by epbrown:
I've heard the "356 owners probably said the same thing" argument before, but I'm betting they didn't.

i read about the discontent over the 911 in OLD sports car books and magaines from the early 1960s. check your local library. look at the late 1960s magazines to read about how the 911 was a dangerous car to drive because of it's tricky handling on wet roads. the 1970s magazines are great to read about how the 911 was going to be replaced by front-engined Porsches that got good mileage. read the early 1980s mazagines to see about how Porsche was going to focus on the 924/944 and stop making RSRs. read the ones from the late 1980s and you can read about how Porsche was going out of business. check the early 1990s ones to read about the 968 pickup truck looking thing they were going to make.

i can dig up some of the passages about the early 911s if you wish .

obin

[Saffs]

Yeah, Obin, I've a lot of old car mags. and have noticed the all that too. Esp. the thought that the 928 would replace the 911.
Anthony

------------------
'75 911S Targa
'81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3

[firecall999]

I first wanted a Porsche over anything else when then phrase "a super car you can use every day" or something similar, was being used in the car mags in the '80s. This really appealed to me. A car so tough and so fast that I can drive it to school and rip up Sierra Cosworths on the home and still have a car that looks like a super model.

I care about engineering and quality. I dont care about air cooled or water cooled. I like cars that have a heritage and purity. I like cars that count for something. And the 996 does and has all of that. It may not be to every ones taste, but so what??!!

I think with the design of the 996 they have actually tried to get back to basics. Anyone who moans about how plain it looks should look at the early 911. These cars have very clean straight lines. Its the later cars they have the add ons and flared wheel arches. The 996 is really a really clean and sharp piece of design. It has a purity of form that is seldom seen in cars nowadays. Ok, so it looks a bit like the Boxster, which for some people cheapens it, and that may have been a mistake, but it is still a piece of automotive art.

The 996 may not be a 911, but it doesnt have to be, to us (i.e. owners of the earlier cars), its a marketing tool. Its a brand, the name Porsche 911 must be up there with Marboro and Mcdonalds for brand recognition.
It doesnt have to be a real 911because Porsche dont make *real* 911s anymore. So move on and foget about it. Accept the 966 for what it is and appreciate that. In a few years you might be saying "they dont make 996s like they used to".

On a personal level I dont think the 911 has ever looked like a 911 since 1973.5.
The early cars rule. Anything else just isnt a 911. The design was ruined at that point.

And to remake my point at the start - Porsche still make useable everyday super cars, and that is what Porsche is about.
My little brothers dream of owning Porsches today. Because Porsche still makes cars that do that for people. They may be different people than you or me, but Porsche still do it. for them

When I turned up at my Parents house with my 911, my whole family came out to see. I took my 18 brother for a ride. He was intially a little disapointed because he though it would look like some massive tarmac monster, but it looked almost dainty in his opinion. But as soon as I dumped the clutch at the lights and he looked back and saw how far away everyone was and he heard that "sound" he knew just how cool the car was. At the end of the trip he said "There needs to be cars like this".
I think he was almost afraid that governement would outlaw *real* sports cars and he would never get to drive one.

The 996 is a sports car and it is an everyday super car. But maybe cars are just too clean these days. Maybe they dont smell of oil or petrol anymore.

I think I confused my argument there a little, but I guess at the end of the day, I just dont know....

Alex "loads of Wine drunk tonight" Counsell.

[RaF944]

Originally posted by Randy W:
I agree with the posts about the superior handling and power of the 996, but if Ferrari can import a car as beautiful as the 360 Modena, why can't Porsche give us something better looking than the 996? The headlights, tailights, front ducts and the styling of the front and rear overhangs leaves alot to be desired in my opinion - and the spy photos of the next generation 996 give me little hope. I think the Boxster actually looks better overall, and it's not nearly as pretty as the show car.

Randy W

*Cough* Carerra GT *Cough*