Starter Issue

[Johnb911]

I don't have the car on the road yet.

I have it put back together and have been messing with the AFR as I just fixed all my leaks this winter.

It has had an issue Cold starting. NEVER EVER did before.

SO I have been doing longer cranks.

Now I can't get the thing to crank at all.

Id went under the car and touched the Positive connector from the battery and almost lit my hand on fire.

It now just goes clunk like I havea dead battery or something is holding the starter back.

The battery is 100%.
The connections are good.

What do I check next?

[Johnb911]

More to add.

If I leave it for about 15 min.
I can get it to do more then clunk.

It will do the WA WA WA very slowly as it tries to turn motor over about three srokes then won't move.

Last time that I had the motor running a few days ago it was running OK just hadn't got the mixture right.

Pardon the sound effects but you sll know what they are or sound like.

PS.
Could I have filled the heads with fuel.
How do I know.
Help.

[Johnb911]

Anyone?

[Johnb911]

morning bump

thoughts anyone.

[911pcars]

"Id went under the car and touched the Positive connector from the battery and almost lit my hand on fire."

This is an indication something is wrong. Perhaps a short in the motor. Connect a voltmeter to the battery, then observe the voltage before and during cranking. Let us know.

Before removing the starter assy., to bench test, check the starting system connections at the battery and ground cables.

Sherwood

[72T]

Just had a similar issue, same clunk. Starter had burned up because it had remained engaged during a start. The wif, who was driving it with one of the kids, wondered what that odd sound was, and the smoke that came after...your problem could be electrical within the starter.

[Johnb911]

Thanks Guys will check tonight.

[Christien]

Have you tried swapping in a known good battery, or jumping it from another running car? Batteries can do weird things.

What about trying to push start it? That bypasses the starter altogether, so you can at least eliminate that variable. If it starts by push starting, the problem is in the starter. If it doesn't, the problem is elsewhere. Because removing the starter with the engine still in the car is a huge PITA, I'd want to make sure the problem is in the starter before looking elsewhere.

[Johnb911]

Had a 100% battery jumpered to it last night. Same DEal.

Did not try the push start may try that tonight if I can round up some neighbors.

[Christien]

Just make sure you're able to get it back into the garage if it doesn't start!! I had the unfortunate experience of having to push my car back up my (inclined) court, up my (inclined) driveway and into my garage (with a 2-inch concrete bump) all by myself...

[Johnb911]

OK
13.6 volts at the battery
Two 4 awg grounds with 18 inches. I'm an ex car audio guy.

16.6 volts at the starter
Good ground on case of starter, solenoid and conection the tranny.

Could not check while cranking.
No one here to help tonight.

[WoodSport]

I just replaced the starter on my 3.2. I eliminated all other possibilities before pulling the starter but the final symptom was that the voltage everywhere on the car was a strong 13.5 until turning the ignition to START - with no cranking at all, the voltage instantly dropped to 7 or 8 and kept dropping until the ignition was released.

After pulling the starter, it sounded like there was gravel and sand rolling around inside it. I put in one of the lightweight hi-torque starters and (after a few modifications to the ignition wire AND starter cable ) it fired right up. stronger than ever.

[Johnb911]

Will convince the wife to help in morning.


Thanks

[73rustbucket]

First make sure engine turns easily at crank pulley.
Measure voltage at starter when cranking. No need for help here, just remove solenoid wire and short to main power cable on starter while measuring voltage.
If both test fine. pull starter and inspect starter and ring gear.

[Tigerrat]

If you are really concerned that it could be hydo-locked, pull the plugs and see if it turns over. Otherwise I think your next step is to try a new/known good starter.

[Johnb911]

Got the starter out tonight.

Let me say one thing loud and clear.

DON'T MESS AROUND TRYING TO GET YOUR HAND IN THERE TRYING TO GET THE TOP 10MM.
DROP THE SOME OF THE HOSES ETC AND DROP THE MOTOR AND COME IN FROM THE MOTOR SIDE!!!!!!

Anyways.

Jumped it off battery and it ran for a a bit them strted to kill the battery fast and put huge amounts of resistance on it.
Oh and then it started to smoke a little.

So I unhooked it

Tried a gain a little later and it arched the battery like crazy and the started to smoke the starter after a few seconds.

I am going to send it to the rebuild shop in the morning.

COMMENTS

[layzee]

Originally Posted by Johnb911

COMMENTS

Buy a Hi-Torque starter from our host - in 40 years the starter tech has improved a lot. These new ones take lower current to produce a much higher power crank.

Agree with you on the access thing. Partial engine drop is way easier.

[Christien]

Also, aren't the new hi-torque starters a significant weight savings, as well?

[WoodSport]

The original starter is slightly over 16 lbs. The new one is eight.

It's not exactly a plug-and-play swap, but it's nothing too difficult - I did it without dropping the engine.

Some minor hassles:
1. Adjustable mounting flange - find the one correct position out of eight.
2. Thinner mounting flange - makes the studs too long to use the original hex-socket fasteners and there is no room for regular nuts so it requires a small bushing to secure properly.
3. Different layout - the electrical connectors are nowhere near the original position so the starter cable needs a solid, protected extension.
4. Different ignition connector - the new unit uses a blade connector instead of a post.

Definitely worth it, though.