Bought Pistons and Cylinders

Leland Pate · 06-11-2001, 05:28 PM

Well I took the plunge.
I ordered a set of KS pistons and cylinders from EBS.
It was the last set they had in stock of the 9.3:1 CR.
I st down with a calculator and figured out the amount of money I'd spend in any event.
Just to have my Mahles replated it was going to cost $750. Then I'd have to decide if I wanted to spend another $900 on JE pistons or risk reusing mine.
Thats $1700 right there. I just don't want to reassemble this thing only to find that the rings won't properly seat and my motor smokes.
I got the KS set for $900. And tomorrow Jon from EBS is going to call me back with an offer on my old Mahles. I figure if they only give me like $200 for my set then I am still only paying $700 for the reconditioned set of KSs.
I had a long discussion about the rap that KS stuf gets. He said that in some ways they are inferior to Mahles ie. you can't run JEs in them. But he said for street use there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. He also said that he believed they got a bad rap from people trying to re ring them and you just can't do it because the silicon in the bores is worn off and the new rings will not seat. He said they use an 8 step process to reimpregnate the bores with silicon and they are as god as new.

Hopefully they will work fine.

paulhagedorn · 06-11-2001, 05:35 PM

Ooh, Leland, I'm telling. You didn't spend mega bucks on original equipment parts. Your engine is going to hate you!

Hell, I don't know. I am praying they work well for you. I haven't had any experience with the KS set so wouldn't know.

Waiting for you to terrorize the base with your car, though! Watch out for those tanks, they like to run over little "bugs" like 911's etc.

Paul

Leland Pate · 06-11-2001, 05:51 PM

Paul, KS is original equipment...it's just no one "hopes" they have Alusils in their car.
I hope they work too!

paulhagedorn · 06-11-2001, 05:58 PM

Learn somethin new every day... I thought KS was aftermarket and only Mahle's were used. Now I get to look like a fool! Oh well, I never claimed to be a Porsche god. Wish I were...or I wish I were Stef so I could play with these cars all day long as a job.

Paul

Superman · 06-11-2001, 07:10 PM

Interesting, Leland. So these are reconditioned Alusils, with new pistons? I like the idea of new rings seating on a new, prepared surface while riding in new pistons. For $900, you can't go wrong, I would think.

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'83 SC

Leland Pate · 06-11-2001, 08:13 PM

Jim, I don't think the pistons are brand new. Just good sets of used reconditioned Pistons and Cylinders.
I too hope they turn out to work alright.

Now...should I go with this 964 cam grind? Would it compliment the boost in the compression ratio???
Anyone?

Leland Pate · 06-11-2001, 10:29 PM

Ok guys...if there was ever a time that any of you could convince me that a 964 cam grind would be a good idea...that time is now...I have not yet seen my credit card balance so let me have it! Pros/Cons????
Whats the deal...

BRAINIAC · 06-11-2001, 10:42 PM

I've heard some very good reviews on the 964 cam swap and no bad. I'd do it. We always want more power. You wil almost surely wish you had down the line. Trust me on this one. Might as well buy the extra power now while it's just parts price and not parts/labor price.

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Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet
92 C-2 Cabriolet

howie944 · 06-11-2001, 10:46 PM

Leland, you EOD folks get a mega reup bonus don't ya? Go for it if you are near your reup time! We security pukes used to get a mega bonus too (before I retired)! 50 cents, a bag lunch, and a new set of cold weather gear (including "bunny boots"). I too am of the SC faith!

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Howie
79SC

hank911 · hank911's Garage

HI Leland,I just got done with a Web Cams 20/21 grind upgrade on my 83SC.It's a little more aggressive than the 964 grind.Lots of power,good drivability and the car gets up to 7grand nice and fast.2500 miles and no complaints from me!!!

Early_S_Man · 06-12-2001, 05:48 AM

Leland,

Yeah, the Web-Cam CIS+ grind described right above and a set of Jerry Woods 'sport springs' and retainers would be the way to go, and a perfect match for SSI's at some point!

I don't really think you are taking any chance at all on the EBS reconditioned set ... they know what they are doing, and have great customer support from everything I have heard about them! Now, if they were a bit more reasonable on the Titanium intake valves ...

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Leland Pate · 06-12-2001, 06:13 AM

Well I already bought a complete set of factory valves and springs but I don't think I will be doing allot of high reving so I should be fine, right?
Whats the difference between the 964 grind and this Web-cam 20/21 grind?

Superman · 06-12-2001, 09:13 PM

Leland, I think you're already gonna like the 9.3:1 pistons regardless of cams. The factory specified the same horsepower for all US SCs, whether 8.6 ot 9.3 to one pistons. I don't believe it.

Tyson's reasoning has the ring of good advice. You might regret not going with the slightly more aggressive cam grind. None of these CIS-friendly cam grinds is very radical. I believe what they do is what needs to be done anyway. You see, these SCs are nice because of all the torque (gonads) they have compared to earlier engines. But power curve really peters out at the top. My car comes on at 3500 rpm in a very entertaining way, but starts to poop out at perhaps 5000. Certainly it has lost 30 horses or so by 5500 rpm. I believe these other cams solve this problem. I'm no engine designer but I know in my heart that these engines are supposed to have power that does not drop off this early.

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'83 SC

Leland Pate · 06-12-2001, 09:43 PM

Thanks supa,

Web cam wants like over $600 for the 20/21 grind..a bit more than I wanna spend. Tomorrow I'll talk to EBS again about the 964 grind and se what he says.

I am selling my old set of P/Cs. Hopefully there is someone out there that can use them.
I only want a couple hundred bucks for 'em. I figure the pistons are good and worth that alone. And someone could have them refurbished by EBS and still spend only $750 for the replate and end up with a real nice set for a hellova lot less than what a new set costs.

hank911 · hank911's Garage

Hey Leland,if you know anybody in the auto industry have them call Web Cams for you,cost goes down to about $490,or have them send you out the spec's and maybe somebody else can run that grind.Never had the 964 grinds but the 20/21 make great power on the upper end,gobs of torque too at the lower rpm's!!!!! PHP.....

Roland Kunz · 06-13-2001, 03:54 PM

Hello

Mahle and Kolbenschmidt are OEM and still today competitors.

Mahle had the exclusive Nicasil and the Magnesium technolgie. ( Engine cases )

KS made the butter & bread P&C. The Alusil isn´t a bad design and costet much less.

Today KS makes the Locasil enginecases and is limiting the factory car output.

Don´t ask me why Porsche uses the old 993 cases in the GT and Turbo cars.

Grüsse

paulhagedorn · 06-13-2001, 04:37 PM

Man, if you(Leland) had said Kolbenschmidt I would have known what you were talking about. I guess I should have known that that is what KS stood for. Oh well.

Leland Pate · 06-13-2001, 05:32 PM

Yeah Paul, I was just too lazy to type out Kolbenschmitt

.

Thanks Roland for the insight on the differences between the two.

I should have them by next week.

What should I do about balancing and placement of the pistons and cylinders.

With the cylinders I guess it dosen't really matter which cylinder goes where?

But with the pistons I know weight is critical. I am debating whether or not I need to take these up to the machinist to have them balanced as well. I just feel kind of stupid having two sets of pistons balanced...waste of money.
Which way does it go...lightest pistons on the ends and heaviest in the middle???

Whats the best way to install those pesky little circlips for the wrist pins??? I forsee a couple of those suckers going supersonic across the garage before I'm done...
any tips?

Leland Pate · 06-13-2001, 05:46 PM

Lol Noah,

That sucks, I hope someone can use them. I figure someone can have them replated and still spend much less that a reconditioned or new set would cost.
I figure I'll ask $200 for the set.
hell that's not alot for a set of Mahles with good pistons and cylinders that *might* have to be replated. Thats only like $950 total and you'd have a pretty good set. I think one reason that people aren't screaming like raped apes is because they are the stock 8.5:1 CR and not the hot ticket 9.3:1.
Oh well...surely there is someone out there that needs a set and can't spend the big bucks.

We'll see.