Hints for handling transaction for overseas 911 sale?

[Jim Williams]

I have a tentative sale working for the sale of my 911 to a customer in Germany. He has stated his shipper would be picking up, and making the payment for, the car at it's location here in the States. Does anyone with experience with this have any suggestions about anything I should know or be aware of in such a transaction? Acceptable method of payment? Legal documents to be aware of?

Assuming the sale is agreed on, I just want everything to go smoothly at time of the exchange of car and payment... Comments/suggestions welcome.

[barndoor]

Has he tried to pay you more than you were asking ? If so,RUN.Did he try to get you down on the price at all?
How is the shipper going to pay you? a check ? cash ? can you be sure either are real ?
The best way for him to Wire Transfer the payment to your bank account.
Then he can have it picked up,you mail the title to him and then go to DMV to get it out of your name.

[LakeCleElum]

Jim - The way I read this, you have a legit buyer, not some internet flake?

My buddy just went thru this with a sale to Australia.

Make sure the funds are wired to your account before the car leaves the US. A direct wire transfer is best, my bank charges a $20 fee.

The biggest issue is to satisfy Customs. They will want the: the title, registration, you ID, etc. They may want to see original documents - check with the importing country.

Also, don't ship the title with the car, mail it on ahead unless customs requires it to accompany the paperwork package. G'luck.

[Gogar]

+1 wire transfer. Cashier's checks don't count anymore. Not ever.

If he is legit he will prefer wire transfer as well.

[barndoor]

You shouldn't have to deal with customs at all,unless the buyer has never done this before and he's asking you to,which,you still should not get involved with.He will need someone to do the paperwork for customs,You may need to send the title to them instead of him.Otherwise YOU will be the one jumping through hoops.....

[Fishcop]

+2 on the wire transfer.

I've spent considerable money with you guys over in the States an never had an issue. I do "haggle" but I accept the cost of shipping is my issue, as is any customs problems. Customs issues should really only be at the buyer's end (unless you're selling State treasures or mailing currency).

Cheaper stuff is easily handles with Visa/Mastercard (for vendors) or Paypal for private transactions, but anything more than a few k should be done using wire/eftpos as it is instant and the buyer can see they have clear funds. The $20 charged to buyer and seller by the bank can be negotiated, but it is way cheaper than the % increase the other options cost.

Personally, and for the relatively inexpensive flights, I'd be inclined to turn up -view the car- and pay the owner in person. And I'm talking big ticket items here though. I'd also probably consider trusting one of you guys as an independent to view the car and offer opinion... someone cynical like Randy Webb or Milt

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by barndoor

Has he tried to pay you more than you were asking ? If so,RUN.Did he try to get you down on the price at all?

He is offering below the asking price.

How is the shipper going to pay you? a check ? cash ? can you be sure either are real ?

The subject of how he plans to pay hasn't been covered yet.

The best way for him to Wire Transfer the payment to your bank account.

As noted, several others are suggesting the same method of payment. Does anyone know how this works between countries? Bank guarantees?

Then he can have it picked up,you mail the title to him and then go to DMV to get it out of your name.

The state the car is in, Alabama, does not require a title on Year Models 1974 and older (it's a '74). Only a bill of sale is required. I do have the title from the state the car was purchased from. I don't know whether is going to be a stumbling block for a sale to Germany.

From LakeCleElum

Jim - The way I read this, you have a legit buyer, not some internet flake?

Is there a way to tell for sure? Seriously, the interchanges so far have been brief enough that I am just having to assume that he is serious...

Thanks to all for the responses. The votes are in favor of a wire transfer. This thought didn't really occur to me...

[Hugh R]

Wire Transfer is the way to go. I sold an old British sports car to the Prime Minister of Kuwait that way. No issues. He can't reverse the transaction.

[johndglynn]

Definitely insist he transfers the cash to a bank account a few days before any shipper turns up. Everything else beyond that is his problem. There are plenty of shippers out there who will do his paperwork etc for him.

You are selling your car at a discount, end of story. If it gets any more complicated than selling to a guy in the next town, I would tell him to clear off. I would also want mucho contact details now and more than a few brief emails.

This is speaking as someone who just bought a car 5500 miles from me. The last one was 4 countries away. Picking up the one before that was a full day's driving!

[kiwiokie]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

As noted, several others are suggesting the same method of payment. Does anyone know how this works between countries? Bank guarantees?

I have not sold a car to an overseas customer however at work I move money internationally almost every day. For the buyer to wire you the money you will need to provide the following:

SWIFT address
ABA number (routing number)
Account number
Account name
Name of bank
Address of bank

No bank guarantee should be required as long as you do not part company with the car before you receive the money. Cheers, John

[kiwiokie]

Almost forgot, if you want to be extra safe set up a dedicated account for receiving the funds and move the money to your regular account as soon as it is received. Someone in the international banking community recommended this to me some time back since the details you provide to the payor are all they need to pull money out of your account. Cheers, John

[lin7310948]

sold an early car to a gentleman in sweden. he transferred the funds several weeks before the car was pickedup for export. one of the easiest transactions i have ever participated in.

[Jim Williams]

Guys,

Many thanks to all of you that have put in your recommendations so far, particularly John (kiwiokie) for the details on data needed for the transfer, and the suggestion for setting up a separate account.

If the sale and subsequent transaction goes through, I'll report back.

[geshaghi]

When I sold my car to a buyer in Holland recently, he trusted me more than I trusted him. We exchanged numerous emails and I provided photos in response to his queries. He called me several times, and I asked him for references for prior purchases in the US, which he provided. After we agreed on a price and terms, he wired the funds directly to me (I set up a new account to accept the wire, as I didn't want to give him my regular account number). Once I was comfortable that the wire was confirmed and irretrievable by him, I delivered the car to his shipper. I was a little uncomfortable with an international wire and spoke to my bank about it at length. Since my buyer has other purchases in the US, and had some contacts here in the form of family and an established shipper, it was my initial preference to receive payment through one of them, but this was going to take too long and I didn't want to lose other prospective buyers. I had wanted a deposit in order to hold the car and reflect the buyer's commitment, and we tried to do this via PayPal for $500, but PayPal ended up putting a hold on the funds for some reason (which made me a bit more suspicious). Ultimately, he sent a wire for the full amount and a copy of his wire confirmation from his bank, and that was enough for me to take the car off the market pending receipt of the funds (which took four or five days). I would be skeptical about releasing the car until you validate that the funds are good and can not be charged back by your bank - I came to the conclusion that an international wire was best for this purpose. Cashier's check is still subject to clearance, which can take days or weeks if it is drawn on a non-US bank.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by geshaghi

... Ultimately, he sent a wire for the full amount and a copy of his wire confirmation from his bank, and that was enough for me to take the car off the market pending receipt of the funds (which took four or five days). I would be skeptical about releasing the car until you validate that the funds are good and can not be charged back by your bank - I came to the conclusion that an international wire was best for this purpose. Cashier's check is still subject to clearance, which can take days or weeks if it is drawn on a non-US bank.

Thanks for the details of your experience, particularly the information that an international wire transfer could take 4-5 days. That could be an important factor in the planning cycle, should this sale actually come to pass.

[geshaghi]

You should definitely speak to your bank about the timing and clearance of an international wire.

[BK911]

I sold a car to a gentleman in Europe. He insisted on looking at it before payment. So he flew here, looked at the car, then called his bank to wire the money to a new account I set up. Everything went pretty well except the money took a couple of days before it showed up in my account. He almost had to extend his stay. So the moral of the story is, wire transfers take a couple of days. Plan accordingly.

[Jim Williams]

Here's a follow-up to the sale of my '74 911 S to Germany...

After making the agreement, the buyer asked for a bill of sale. I found out through a little research, that this is a legitimate request. (It's called a proforma document, only signifying the intent of the seller to sell once the seller receives payment.)

So I sent it by mail. After a considerable wait, it showed up and the buyer said he would send a wire to his agent, then the agent would wire me the payment. It's been almost 3 weeks, and the shipper says he has not received the funds. I have emailed the buyer several times, sometimes getting no response; his only reply so far was that there must be a mistake somewhere. Whereupon I gave him the choice of sending some proof that the wire had actually been sent to his agent, or I was cancelling the deal. No reply from him in 5 days.

So I have lost almost a month by telling folks the car was sold...

No real moral to this story, just thought I'd follow up. I've about decided to keep the '74 and wait for a live buyer to show up...

[avi8torny]

What's up with Europeans buying Porsche's in the states? Is the dollar that weak?

I just sold mine to a guy from Munich, showed up with CASH and took the car. Smooth transaction.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by avi8torny

What's up with Europeans buying Porsche's in the states? Is the dollar that weak?

I just sold mine to a guy from Munich, showed up with CASH and took the car. Smooth transaction.

It's not a weak dollar. It's the combination of the fact that we got the lion's share of early production and so many of the cars haven't survived over there. It's simple supply and demand. We have more of them than they do, so they are willing to pay more for them than we are.

I was just sent pictures of my 1970 911T that I sold last year. It was fully restored and returned to it's original color. It sold to an end user in Germany for just shy of 40,000 Euros. This is a car I paid a couple grand for in 2005, and sold for $8600 in 2008. It was a nice little car with very little rust to start with and didn't need a ton of metal work to make it right. The final selling price represent their market more than the work required to the car.